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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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here's gene Steinberg back with gene and

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Chris you know we had a lot of fun

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discussions in the para cast community

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forums last week with regard to our

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interview with Ryan Skinner about the

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skinwalker ranch people are eternally

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interested in that place just can't get

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away from it can't run out of material

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so I had a lot of fun with it Chris yeah

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had a chance to go further through

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Ryan's new book I really do think that

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he's done a good job but it's light

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years ahead of his first book which was

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basically more of a a journal sort of a

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personal you know story about his

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involvement with the ranch this book

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goes into quite a bit of history and and

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some pretty intriguing stories from

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around the region plus of course the

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documentation that he reveals very

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courageously I might add and I think the

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show went good and the response has been

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really good and Ryan is really loyal to

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the forums so if you ask him a question

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in the forums within a day or so he'll

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respond yeah that's true if it's

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critical

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doesn't matter he'll talk about it a

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little all the Hangout and he'll tell

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you what he thinks so there you go

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that's last week's episode if you didn't

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hear it download a copy in fact I got an

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email from somebody I can't download the

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show what's going on all I can get is

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live streaming so we have download links

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all over our site the power cast calm

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and you can download it directly from

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itunes so he says I don't want to use

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items all right fine

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here's a link use this one well it just

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brings up the player yes it does and if

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you right-click you can download the

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show I don't want to bother with all

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that I'm not gonna listen to you show

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any

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so easy come easy go one listener loss

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another thing that happened in just

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recent days is we had an anniversary in

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the UFO field and I don't think too many

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people bothered to write about and

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although some discussion has arisen

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since then on June 24 1947 67 years ago

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Kenneth Arnold had his famous sighting

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over Mount Rainier in the state of

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Washington nine crescent shaped objects

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you know their motion was described as

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like saucers skipping across water and

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therefore we got the flying saucer

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mystery but it doesn't seem as if a lot

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of people care any more

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I didn't see any great anniversaries and

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you kind of think this is how he really

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started in the modern era we ought to

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pay more attention to it you know I can

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I can see that for a whole generation

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and a half probably of newcomers to the

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field you know the Kenneth Arnold

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sighting kind of faintly rings a bell

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but I don't think it's that big of a

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deal it's it's such ancient history to

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most folks under under 40 let's say that

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it's gonna be to no surprise to me that

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it barely passed by with a whisper but

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think about it for a moment

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Kenneth Arnold hadn't looked in the

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wrong direction or right direction

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hadn't seen that formation of whatever

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it was there had been no UFO flurry then

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where would all of us be now well yeah

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that just happens to be the most

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celebrated sighting from that time

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period of course the following two weeks

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before Roswell you know you had a major

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flap of activity in Idaho Oregon

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Northern California I think in

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Washington and there were other reports

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and I think even down in in Arizona

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there are reports so this would have

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broken through as a news story

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regardless of whether or not he had

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actually had that particular sighting

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I'm pretty convinced of that

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we may have a different term flying

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plates or flying I don't know

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well before the frisbee Pie Company so

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about flying pie plates well think of it

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this way though would we call them UFOs

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eventually

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what about the alternate phrases UAP

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which is what narc happens some other

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people use or ueo which is what a pro

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used but you wonder also if the

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publicity surrounding the Arnold case

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made people look up into the skies and

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maybe a lot of the other sightings and

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I'm going to assume that a fair number

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of them were genuine would not have been

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reported it gave a focal point no it's

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true the Innova yeah you're right unless

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we get into some alternative universe we

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can talk about that no Donald Kehoe

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writing about UFOs he continued to write

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fiction you know he wrote superhero type

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fiction in addition to his stuff about

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aviation he was a science fiction writer

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not a terribly good one I've read some

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of his stuff it is available online it's

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public domain but he created some

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characters that to me were reminiscent

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to some of the modern superheroes like a

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Captain America alternative that kind of

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thing

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so that's what kiya would have done what

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with Jim Mosely have done no of course

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we all remember Jim Mosely and saucer

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smear he died a couple of years ago very

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close friend of mine and during the

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early 1950s he went on a trip around the

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United States basically to put material

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together to write a book the book never

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appeared well I guess it kind of

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appeared later in the book shockingly

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close to the truth where he was part of

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it but what would this aimless spoiled

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rich kid this trust-fund baby what would

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he have done if he wasn't chasing after

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UFOs it got me there Jean I have no idea

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perhaps he would have gone into the

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cigar importing business or perhaps he

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would become a designer shoe designer

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how about a guy that squeezed the lids

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on coffee cans of the day or maybe

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toothpaste tubes like in Willy Wonka I

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don't know gene what he's asking me for

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he did of course go to South America to

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do what he called grave robbing which is

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of course to go to

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these relics of past civilizations and

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grabbed what he could and sell it

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Germany he would have opened up a home

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for wayward youth so far every

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possibility you've mentioned is as far

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from the real Jim Mosley as you can

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imagine I'm kind of glad things turn out

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the way they did even though my life was

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turned upside down I'm sure Chris's was

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as well as was the life probably of our

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next guest after a few months absence

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the ever prolific paranormal writer Nick

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Redfern is with us and you know when I

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think of the title of his book Close

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Encounters of the fatal kind I think

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when I first read about the deaths or

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the early deaths of some people in or

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related to the UFO field like for

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example MK Jessup back in the 1950s he

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wrote a book called the case for the UFO

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the expanding case for the UFO and a few

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others I didn't hear much from him I was

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really young when it happened but one

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day in Dade County in Florida in a park

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he runs the carbon monoxide into his car

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and he goes to sleep and he doesn't wake

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up again

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now in point of fact I'm gonna ask Nick

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why he thinks it may have been something

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strange about it understand that his

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life wasn't so great the past year of

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his life he was in a serious auto

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accident the year before he and his wife

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were breaking up he had tried to

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continue his writing career and the

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publishers just weren't interested in

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his book ideas so things weren't going

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so well you wonder though how bad

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someone's life could be before they

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decide to off themselves and in this

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case you know requires kind of an effort

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you know to close up your car to funnel

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the exhaust into there and to just stay

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there and just let it end of course

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possibly had psychological problems that

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we don't understand but is it related to

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UFOs that's the point of this book by

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the way and this is what we're going to

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ask Nick and I'll say honestly I'm still

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kind of skeptical of some of this stuff

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I mean we understand some people in the

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UFO field had early or earlier deaths a

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lot of other people live their full

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natural lives

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Jim Mosely died at 81 years of age a

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full life Stanton Friedman is here he's

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gonna be 80 and by the way he is

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recovering from a heart attack and we

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wish him well but I'm hoping he's gonna

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be around for a while

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he's an alert spry man

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still you know smart as a whip and we

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hope that he'll be recovering but

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certainly he's already lived a long and

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useful life so whatever happens we

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couldn't judge that as being strange but

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we'll see the book is Close Encounters

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of the fatal kind the guest is Nick

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Redfern who does one of the best para

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cast singers we've heard other than

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Chris O'Brien and we'll compare them

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because with gene and Chris you're in

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the para cast

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first game attack of the rock codes and

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it was a critically acclaimed success

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and now there's the coming of the

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protectors a former military

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intelligence man is contacted by a space

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woman in a dream a dream that turns out

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to be a nightmare

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because evil forces on our distant

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planet are planning to conquer the earth

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this is gripping science fiction of the

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classic kind attack of the rock OIG's

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and the coming of the protectors

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find out more at Rocko it's calm that's

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Rocko it's our Ock oids calm so here's

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what happened I was placing an order

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online the site went down it took hours

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before it returned but I'd already

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placed the order with another company if

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your site goes down you could lose

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business and if you have a business or

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personal site you'll want to know it's

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easy to run and it will stay online at

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iWeb your site is hosted on one of the

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most reliable networks in the world talk

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to a sales rep at iWeb comm use the

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promo code tech night owl for a special

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discount on the average Americans work

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between 45 to 50 years hoping to build

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up enough wealth to retire and live out

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their golden years unfortunately with

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taxation the rising cost of food energy

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housing and medical many retirees are

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forced to live below the poverty line is

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this a fly free enterprise or is our

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monetary unit we call the Federal

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Reserve Note forcing us into perpetual

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debt ensuring inflation in higher taxes

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these questions and more can be answered

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by reading G Edward Griffin book the

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creature from Jekyll Island congressman

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Ron Paul States it's what every American

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needs to know about central bank power a

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gripping adventure into the secret world

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of international banking cartel hi this

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is Ted Anderson I will give a silver

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dollar from the early 1900's to anyone

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[Music]

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the best-selling 100 blooms for $19.99

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plus

273
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in the top right corner and enter code

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plow that's proflowers.com click the mic

290
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and enter code PLO w question could too

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317
00:14:07,059 --> 00:14:04,100
if you have a comment or question about

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320
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that's news at the para cast calm and

321
00:14:17,699 --> 00:14:14,360
don't forget to visit our famous para

322
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:17,709
cast community forums at forum dot the

323
00:14:25,300 --> 00:14:22,010
podcast.com before we started I was

324
00:14:27,850 --> 00:14:25,310
asking Nick Redfern once again why he

325
00:14:30,490 --> 00:14:27,860
hasn't surprised me and gotten Skype to

326
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:30,500
work on his personal computer and he

327
00:14:35,710 --> 00:14:32,810
tells me that what I'm the only one who

328
00:14:38,439 --> 00:14:35,720
asks him yeah every other show I do they

329
00:14:40,540 --> 00:14:38,449
demand a landline not only did I demand

330
00:14:43,870 --> 00:14:40,550
a landline they even they will insist on

331
00:14:46,569 --> 00:14:43,880
a corded landline as well and so that's

332
00:14:48,879 --> 00:14:46,579
pretty much something like for example

333
00:14:50,799 --> 00:14:48,889
you know that shows like coast to coast

334
00:14:53,079 --> 00:14:50,809
that they will not allow you to you know

335
00:14:55,449 --> 00:14:53,089
do the show via Skype you have to use a

336
00:14:58,389 --> 00:14:55,459
landline do they understand you can

337
00:15:01,480 --> 00:14:58,399
actually call people on the phone with

338
00:15:03,730 --> 00:15:01,490
Skype and receive phone calls well yeah

339
00:15:06,429 --> 00:15:03,740
well the way it's been told to me by a

340
00:15:10,059 --> 00:15:06,439
lot of the shows I do is that although

341
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:10,069
that they prefer Skype in terms of

342
00:15:14,019 --> 00:15:11,930
quality so many of the shows tell me

343
00:15:16,210 --> 00:15:14,029
though they get dropped a lot when they

344
00:15:18,670 --> 00:15:16,220
using Skype well I understand as a live

345
00:15:21,699 --> 00:15:18,680
show that makes sense you have run into

346
00:15:23,769 --> 00:15:21,709
problems scattered problems but not a

347
00:15:26,379 --> 00:15:23,779
lot and even with a regular landline you

348
00:15:28,449 --> 00:15:26,389
go disconnect every so often yeah that's

349
00:15:31,509 --> 00:15:28,459
right I mean now systems faultless but I

350
00:15:34,500 --> 00:15:31,519
mean as far as I'm concerned for Skype

351
00:15:40,809 --> 00:15:34,510
you know I just I just don't use it

352
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:40,819
something else surprises God Skype but

353
00:15:45,670 --> 00:15:42,800
there's a laptop I've got there's a

354
00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:45,680
there's a very glitch on it where Skype

355
00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:49,040
just won't open and you know for the say

356
00:15:53,290 --> 00:15:51,110
going to get a new laptop just for Skype

357
00:15:53,530 --> 00:15:53,300
this pointless you know what I never use

358
00:15:56,019 --> 00:15:53,540
it

359
00:15:59,740 --> 00:15:56,029
you've never just called HP and said fix

360
00:16:01,840 --> 00:15:59,750
it I mean I had the Geek Squad looking

361
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:01,850
at it I was on the phone for like two or

362
00:16:06,910 --> 00:16:04,490
three hours once literally with which

363
00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:06,920
skypes people and none of them could

364
00:16:09,610 --> 00:16:09,110
figure it out he just they just won't

365
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:09,620
open

366
00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:14,650
the men in black have taken over Skype

367
00:16:19,150 --> 00:16:16,910
that's it they've read your books and

368
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:19,160
you wrote the wrong thing there's some

369
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:21,890
paragraph or sentence somewhere in one

370
00:16:26,380 --> 00:16:23,690
of your books that offends the people

371
00:16:29,050 --> 00:16:26,390
with Skype so they call their black

372
00:16:32,230 --> 00:16:29,060
helicopters out or they call their

373
00:16:34,630 --> 00:16:32,240
security station and said don't let him

374
00:16:38,950 --> 00:16:34,640
use Skype Oh issue to the fact that I've

375
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:38,960
got a six year old laptop I don't know I

376
00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:40,370
have a computer it's almost five years

377
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:42,800
old runs fine but then it's a man I've

378
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:44,930
always found you know that I get this

379
00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:47,330
sort of that age and things start to go

380
00:16:51,490 --> 00:16:48,800
a little bit cranky now and again

381
00:16:53,740 --> 00:16:51,500
that's it computers do that people get

382
00:16:55,780 --> 00:16:53,750
cranky too I get very cranky at my age

383
00:16:59,830 --> 00:16:55,790
Chris knows of course he doesn't reveal

384
00:17:01,780 --> 00:16:59,840
that on the air okay how do you pick

385
00:17:03,550 --> 00:17:01,790
subjects sometimes for these books like

386
00:17:06,100 --> 00:17:03,560
for example closing characters are the

387
00:17:08,740 --> 00:17:06,110
fatal kind where you're looking into the

388
00:17:11,770 --> 00:17:08,750
possible connection of the deaths of

389
00:17:13,390 --> 00:17:11,780
certain people to maybe something

390
00:17:15,970 --> 00:17:13,400
involved in the UFO mystery what

391
00:17:18,069 --> 00:17:15,980
inspired you to do this after different

392
00:17:21,130 --> 00:17:18,079
things I mean this one was one that I

393
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:21,140
personally wanted to write probably half

394
00:17:24,490 --> 00:17:22,730
the books I've done for know page which

395
00:17:26,770 --> 00:17:24,500
is ten books they've come up with the

396
00:17:28,540 --> 00:17:26,780
idea you know it's actually not me who

397
00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:28,550
comes up with it I mean the books for

398
00:17:34,030 --> 00:17:31,760
example world's weirdest places for

399
00:17:36,790 --> 00:17:34,040
nobody's eyes are only NASA conspiracies

400
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:36,800
and a couple more that was just new page

401
00:17:40,150 --> 00:17:38,510
saying to me we'd like somebody to write

402
00:17:42,250 --> 00:17:40,160
those books would you like to be the

403
00:17:45,190 --> 00:17:42,260
person who writes you know so there was

404
00:17:46,420 --> 00:17:45,200
no you know I think crossed my mind to

405
00:17:48,610 --> 00:17:46,430
even write those books that was just

406
00:17:51,460 --> 00:17:48,620
purely you know like a work agreement a

407
00:17:53,500 --> 00:17:51,470
contract but some of the books are right

408
00:17:55,420 --> 00:17:53,510
you know though the most for the books I

409
00:17:57,610 --> 00:17:55,430
write I should say where I come up with

410
00:17:59,680 --> 00:17:57,620
the idea and you always if you know if

411
00:18:01,180 --> 00:17:59,690
you're gonna write a book you want to be

412
00:18:04,810 --> 00:18:01,190
able to give the Raiders something no

413
00:18:06,490 --> 00:18:04,820
and so that was the point of this book I

414
00:18:09,550 --> 00:18:06,500
was sort of looking around for new ideas

415
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:09,560
and realized that nobody had ever

416
00:18:14,410 --> 00:18:11,600
written a full length book on all the

417
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:14,420
various strange and mysterious or

418
00:18:17,950 --> 00:18:16,610
suspicious deaths in ufology even though

419
00:18:19,150 --> 00:18:17,960
you know the main articles are them or

420
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:19,160
somebody might are going to check on

421
00:18:22,810 --> 00:18:20,450
this person or that person

422
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:22,820
but the Badin been like an overall study

423
00:18:29,020 --> 00:18:25,610
so I thought well why not make

424
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:29,030
sort of the the next one and and sort of

425
00:18:33,220 --> 00:18:30,410
the last one because this is my last

426
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:33,230
like UFO conspiracy book I'm not doing

427
00:18:37,470 --> 00:18:35,570
any more after this one and so it's kind

428
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:37,480
of like a nice way to go out so to speak

429
00:18:44,110 --> 00:18:41,450
all right okay so this is your UFO

430
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:44,120
conspiracy swan song okay yeah

431
00:18:50,140 --> 00:18:47,090
so the point being here is that we look

432
00:18:52,060 --> 00:18:50,150
at him deaths of different people and we

433
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:52,070
see if there is possibly a UFO

434
00:18:58,060 --> 00:18:56,210
connection so we have this US Secretary

435
00:19:00,520 --> 00:18:58,070
of Defense back in the 40s James

436
00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:00,530
Forrestal and he jumps out the window in

437
00:19:04,090 --> 00:19:01,370
a hotel right

438
00:19:05,110 --> 00:19:04,100
well no hospital hospital what spring

439
00:19:07,659 --> 00:19:05,120
okay

440
00:19:09,669 --> 00:19:07,669
he's at a hospital he's being treated

441
00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:09,679
for psychological problems there though

442
00:19:13,390 --> 00:19:12,710
that's correct yeah okay so he's at the

443
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:13,400
hospital

444
00:19:19,210 --> 00:19:16,850
and one day he does what well it depends

445
00:19:22,510 --> 00:19:19,220
on who you ask either he jumped from the

446
00:19:26,020 --> 00:19:22,520
16th floor a sixteenth floor window or

447
00:19:27,669 --> 00:19:26,030
fell or was pushed and you know that

448
00:19:29,860 --> 00:19:27,679
those of us that those are really the

449
00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:29,870
only scenarios the official line is that

450
00:19:35,980 --> 00:19:32,240
because he was taken to the hospital in

451
00:19:38,260 --> 00:19:35,990
a depressed state that he'd sort of

452
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:38,270
overwhelmed him while he was still in

453
00:19:41,799 --> 00:19:39,730
there and when he was left alone

454
00:19:46,260 --> 00:19:41,809
conveniently at one point in the early

455
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:46,270
hours of May 22nd 49 he led to his death

456
00:19:52,570 --> 00:19:50,690
other people feel that that he was that

457
00:19:54,690 --> 00:19:52,580
it wasn't suicide that it that it was

458
00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:54,700
murder and they point to the fact that

459
00:19:59,740 --> 00:19:57,890
he's brother fell in the hospital one

460
00:20:02,950 --> 00:19:59,750
day before his death on the 21st and I'm

461
00:20:05,169 --> 00:20:02,960
taking him home tomorrow and of course

462
00:20:09,070 --> 00:20:05,179
he never had a chance to because he died

463
00:20:12,130 --> 00:20:09,080
later that night people in the UFO field

464
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:12,140
have suggested and granted it's all Roma

465
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:15,410
but they've suggested that he being

466
00:20:19,810 --> 00:20:17,330
briefed on the UFO subject when he

467
00:20:22,690 --> 00:20:19,820
became Secretary of Defense the first

468
00:20:24,490 --> 00:20:22,700
secretary of defense and that this kind

469
00:20:26,049 --> 00:20:24,500
of all overwhelmed him and he was

470
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:26,059
somebody who had psychological issues

471
00:20:32,860 --> 00:20:28,850
even before he got the job and his wife

472
00:20:35,950 --> 00:20:32,870
was a full-blown alcoholic and so they

473
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:35,960
had like a tense relationship and he

474
00:20:39,460 --> 00:20:38,210
didn't handle stress well so we

475
00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:39,470
hindsight regardless

476
00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:42,080
the reasons for his death you know he

477
00:20:45,010 --> 00:20:44,000
may not have been the right person for

478
00:20:47,020 --> 00:20:45,020
the job

479
00:20:49,690 --> 00:20:47,030
so you know it's like a lot of these

480
00:20:51,159 --> 00:20:49,700
debts it's sort of 65 years on it's

481
00:20:54,370 --> 00:20:51,169
unlikely we'll ever really know the full

482
00:20:56,620 --> 00:20:54,380
story so I assume then that the common

483
00:20:57,970 --> 00:20:56,630
perception is the guy had problems he

484
00:21:00,610 --> 00:20:57,980
offed himself

485
00:21:03,279 --> 00:21:00,620
jumps out of the window end of story

486
00:21:05,950 --> 00:21:03,289
pretty wonder why do you take somebody

487
00:21:07,299 --> 00:21:05,960
with a known history of psychological

488
00:21:09,970 --> 00:21:07,309
problems based on what you say in your

489
00:21:12,430 --> 00:21:09,980
book he's guy known history why do you

490
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:12,440
make him secretary of defense well I

491
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:14,570
don't know it was actually known

492
00:21:18,940 --> 00:21:17,210
publicly or even to the President Truman

493
00:21:20,830 --> 00:21:18,950
at the time who appointed him to the job

494
00:21:23,620 --> 00:21:20,840
I mean this is all sort of come out

495
00:21:26,620 --> 00:21:23,630
since when with biographies written on

496
00:21:28,659 --> 00:21:26,630
him and you know interviews back in the

497
00:21:31,090 --> 00:21:28,669
50s and 60s with colleagues who were

498
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:31,100
still alive and family and friends I'm

499
00:21:36,820 --> 00:21:33,610
not sure to what extent that was known

500
00:21:40,169 --> 00:21:36,830
outside the family back in the forties

501
00:21:43,990 --> 00:21:40,179
but I mean I mean he was in terms of his

502
00:21:46,899 --> 00:21:44,000
character and his ability to sort of you

503
00:21:48,909 --> 00:21:46,909
know deal on a worldwide basis you know

504
00:21:51,010 --> 00:21:48,919
with high-ranking figures that wasn't an

505
00:21:53,289 --> 00:21:51,020
issue it was just when things began to

506
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:53,299
overwhelm him like most of us you know

507
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:54,650
you have something that happens on a bad

508
00:21:58,390 --> 00:21:56,570
day but you deal with he cope with it

509
00:22:00,880 --> 00:21:58,400
because you have to but that was his

510
00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:00,890
problem now as I said the stories with

511
00:22:06,039 --> 00:22:03,200
in ufology are that he got a briefing on

512
00:22:09,700 --> 00:22:06,049
the UFO subject when he became Secretary

513
00:22:11,649 --> 00:22:09,710
of Defense in 47 but of course you know

514
00:22:14,799 --> 00:22:11,659
this is barely just two months after

515
00:22:16,450 --> 00:22:14,809
Roswell and Kenneth Arnold so if you

516
00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:16,460
know if aliens did crash at Roswell that

517
00:22:20,919 --> 00:22:18,710
probably wasn't much to brief him on

518
00:22:22,740 --> 00:22:20,929
beyond the fact that somebody's skulking

519
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:22,750
around and we've got a few bodies and a

520
00:22:29,409 --> 00:22:27,530
craft and so on which you know would be

521
00:22:30,970 --> 00:22:29,419
amazing enough I don't know if it was

522
00:22:32,820 --> 00:22:30,980
cause the average person to have a

523
00:22:35,799 --> 00:22:32,830
breakdown if they were exposed to that

524
00:22:37,210 --> 00:22:35,809
data though you know yeah we understand

525
00:22:39,220 --> 00:22:37,220
Nick Redferns joining us

526
00:22:41,799 --> 00:22:39,230
the book is Close Encounters of the

527
00:22:47,460 --> 00:22:41,809
fatal kind with gene and Chris you're in

528
00:22:52,539 --> 00:22:49,690
independently leading the way for the

529
00:22:54,129 --> 00:22:52,549
nation compelling talk for every

530
00:23:00,879 --> 00:22:54,139
political persuasion

531
00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:00,889
we are G C and is there a secret UFO

532
00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:03,679
agenda to strange creatures from the

533
00:23:08,409 --> 00:23:06,049
darkest corners of the mind roam the

534
00:23:11,619 --> 00:23:08,419
earth is there evidence for mind control

535
00:23:14,649 --> 00:23:11,629
time travel or devious government

536
00:23:17,139 --> 00:23:14,659
conspiracies find out the inside scoop

537
00:23:19,749 --> 00:23:17,149
on the latest conspiracies paranormal

538
00:23:21,399 --> 00:23:19,759
activity and accordion phenomena when

539
00:23:24,340 --> 00:23:21,409
you subscribe to Tim Beckley's

540
00:23:27,369 --> 00:23:24,350
conspiracy girl it's jam-packed with

541
00:23:30,039 --> 00:23:27,379
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542
00:23:32,139 --> 00:23:30,049
and the best news is absolutely free

543
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instead write to your mailbox

544
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plus a bonus free email newsletter sent

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out every Friday simply send an email

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with your name and address to Mister UFO

547
00:23:51,580 --> 00:23:47,029
at what TV net attached mr. UFO at web

548
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TV net find out what they don't want you

549
00:23:58,350 --> 00:23:53,440
to know

550
00:24:00,500 --> 00:23:58,360
[Music]

551
00:24:02,759 --> 00:24:00,510
we live in a complicated society

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stressful issues are always popping up

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[Music]

633
00:27:10,130 --> 00:27:07,830
this is the wrong plaque author of the

634
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:10,140
UFO encyclopedia other books you're

635
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:16,650
listening to the para cab with Gina and

636
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:18,330
Chris on the para cast we have Nick

637
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:20,970
Redfern he's author of what he says is

638
00:27:28,270 --> 00:27:24,210
going to be his last UFO conspiracy book

639
00:27:30,860 --> 00:27:28,280
Close Encounters of the fatal kind

640
00:27:34,490 --> 00:27:30,870
suspicious deaths mysterious murders and

641
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:34,500
bizarre disappearances in UFO history so

642
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:37,650
far stall from what you're telling me if

643
00:27:41,990 --> 00:27:39,330
there's anything there that's unusual

644
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:42,000
its tenuous oh yeah I mean that's not

645
00:27:46,670 --> 00:27:43,410
that's one of the things we don't have

646
00:27:48,860 --> 00:27:46,680
hard proof that you know his death was

647
00:27:52,970 --> 00:27:48,870
linked to the UFO subject what we have

648
00:27:55,850 --> 00:27:52,980
are fairly intriguing strands suggesting

649
00:27:57,650 --> 00:27:55,860
that that he wasn't suicide but then of

650
00:27:59,030 --> 00:27:57,660
course you know you've got to make a

651
00:28:01,940 --> 00:27:59,040
connection that takes it one step

652
00:28:04,250 --> 00:28:01,950
further and say was due to UFOs rather

653
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:04,260
the strain of having to deal with the

654
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:07,770
threat from the Soviets or whatever and

655
00:28:13,250 --> 00:28:10,770
there are a few admittedly we as aspects

656
00:28:15,020 --> 00:28:13,260
to the story for example one of the

657
00:28:17,030 --> 00:28:15,030
things I point out in the book a little

658
00:28:19,900 --> 00:28:17,040
known thing he just before he got

659
00:28:22,940 --> 00:28:19,910
admitted to hospital

660
00:28:25,090 --> 00:28:22,950
Forrestal had what we might like a

661
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:25,100
classic early man in black experience

662
00:28:29,210 --> 00:28:28,050
now I'm sure you both know that back in

663
00:28:31,490 --> 00:28:29,220
the fifties you know the man in black

664
00:28:33,890 --> 00:28:31,500
always traveled in groups of threes they

665
00:28:35,390 --> 00:28:33,900
look kind of odd and they try and find a

666
00:28:37,340 --> 00:28:35,400
way of getting to people's homes you

667
00:28:39,740 --> 00:28:37,350
know they flash an ID card that turned

668
00:28:42,110 --> 00:28:39,750
out to be bogus or whatever well just

669
00:28:44,060 --> 00:28:42,120
before Forrestal was admitted to us

670
00:28:46,580 --> 00:28:44,070
believes at home with a friend when

671
00:28:48,650 --> 00:28:46,590
there was a knock at the door and one of

672
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:48,660
his staff answered the door and there

673
00:28:52,190 --> 00:28:50,730
was like a conversation the Forrestal

674
00:28:54,710 --> 00:28:52,200
could just tell only he like little

675
00:28:55,010 --> 00:28:54,720
murmurings of and so when the door was

676
00:28:57,620 --> 00:28:55,020
shut

677
00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:57,630
the Forrestal a sities staffer to come

678
00:29:02,210 --> 00:28:59,520
on and you know basically telling what

679
00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:02,220
was going on it turns out that it was

680
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:05,520
some creepy weird looking guy who was

681
00:29:13,070 --> 00:29:08,130
apparently or supposedly at least

682
00:29:14,990 --> 00:29:13,080
looking for the forrestal's help

683
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:15,000
getting this flyer job in the local post

684
00:29:20,810 --> 00:29:19,170
office really weird really weird tenuous

685
00:29:23,420 --> 00:29:20,820
reason for knocking on the front door

686
00:29:25,940 --> 00:29:23,430
and so the guy sends him on his way and

687
00:29:28,220 --> 00:29:25,950
as I said that he told Forrest thought

688
00:29:31,070 --> 00:29:28,230
he was a strange looking guy dressed in

689
00:29:32,990 --> 00:29:31,080
a weird fashion and forestalling a

690
00:29:34,610 --> 00:29:33,000
totally paranoid state was peeking

691
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:34,620
through the window as the guy walked up

692
00:29:39,410 --> 00:29:37,290
the driveway towards the street and he

693
00:29:41,660 --> 00:29:39,420
met up with two other similarly dressed

694
00:29:43,790 --> 00:29:41,670
guys and they kind of stood around

695
00:29:45,950 --> 00:29:43,800
staring at the window for a while and

696
00:29:47,780 --> 00:29:45,960
then wandered off and of course back in

697
00:29:49,850 --> 00:29:47,790
those days you know the the men in black

698
00:29:51,650 --> 00:29:49,860
always used to turn up in groups of

699
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:51,660
three a number of researchers had

700
00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:54,210
suggested this was done deliberately to

701
00:29:59,630 --> 00:29:57,120
try and destabilize Forrestal even more

702
00:30:01,610 --> 00:29:59,640
by having sort of weird little guys turn

703
00:30:03,260 --> 00:30:01,620
up at the front door and try and force

704
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:03,270
their way in in other words somebody

705
00:30:08,690 --> 00:30:05,970
wanted him gone and even if he committed

706
00:30:11,390 --> 00:30:08,700
suicide somebody may have been trying to

707
00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:11,400
destabilize someone who they knew who

708
00:30:16,580 --> 00:30:13,710
had a fragile psychological condition

709
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:16,590
already if you like now couple of other

710
00:30:20,180 --> 00:30:17,730
interesting things

711
00:30:23,930 --> 00:30:20,190
Forrestal actually began working in the

712
00:30:26,810 --> 00:30:23,940
Pentagon on September the 23rd 1947

713
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:26,820
well September 23rd was also the same

714
00:30:31,670 --> 00:30:29,370
day that general Nathan twining of the

715
00:30:34,010 --> 00:30:31,680
Army Air Force as it was then wrote this

716
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:34,020
sort of famous documents what the term

717
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:36,570
flying saucer excuse me flying disc at

718
00:30:40,670 --> 00:30:38,850
the time and where he wrote the

719
00:30:42,740 --> 00:30:40,680
phenomenal report it is something real

720
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:42,750
and not visionary or fictitious and

721
00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:44,730
famous document he was prepared the same

722
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:48,000
day Forrestal started his job well the

723
00:30:52,550 --> 00:30:50,570
very day after that September the 24th

724
00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:52,560
Forrestal had a behind-closed-doors

725
00:30:58,760 --> 00:30:54,960
meeting we both Truman and dr. Vannevar

726
00:31:02,450 --> 00:30:58,770
Bush who's been long connected with the

727
00:31:04,550 --> 00:31:02,460
UFO phenomenon so again it's tenuous or

728
00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:04,560
maybe it isn't it depends on the way you

729
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:06,510
look at it but we do have these sort of

730
00:31:11,210 --> 00:31:08,970
weird little threads now one of the most

731
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:11,220
fascinating things just a few years ago

732
00:31:16,250 --> 00:31:14,130
the CIA Declassified document which

733
00:31:20,330 --> 00:31:16,260
actually contained in a several thousand

734
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:20,340
page file on their work in Guatemala in

735
00:31:25,700 --> 00:31:23,250
the 1950s and there's a document

736
00:31:26,510 --> 00:31:25,710
contained in that file titled the study

737
00:31:29,150 --> 00:31:26,520
of assassin

738
00:31:32,540 --> 00:31:29,160
and it's essentially a document that

739
00:31:34,220 --> 00:31:32,550
explains two CIA agents the best way to

740
00:31:34,850 --> 00:31:34,230
kill someone and make it look like an

741
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:34,860
accident

742
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:37,679
and the easiest most profitable way the

743
00:31:43,250 --> 00:31:40,290
CIA said was to throw somebody out of a

744
00:31:45,740 --> 00:31:43,260
high storey window onto a preferably a

745
00:31:48,290 --> 00:31:45,750
concrete floor below which is exactly

746
00:31:52,010 --> 00:31:48,300
what happened to Forrestal coincidence

747
00:31:54,830 --> 00:31:52,020
right well in that kind of death it's

748
00:31:58,160 --> 00:31:54,840
really hard to find evidence except on

749
00:32:00,530 --> 00:31:58,170
CSI or Law & Order Special Victims Unit

750
00:32:03,140 --> 00:32:00,540
to find evidence of foul play

751
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:03,150
well I don't know with Forrest although

752
00:32:08,780 --> 00:32:05,610
as Nick points out in the book the very

753
00:32:11,330 --> 00:32:08,790
fact that his his you know how is how he

754
00:32:14,030 --> 00:32:11,340
was actually supposedly hung himself out

755
00:32:16,190 --> 00:32:14,040
the window is a little inconceivable if

756
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:16,200
what he's using is the the belt off is

757
00:32:20,419 --> 00:32:18,570
that bathrobe now when you looked up

758
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:20,429
this story and did your research where

759
00:32:24,410 --> 00:32:22,770
did you find the information about how

760
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:24,420
he did this how he accomplished his

761
00:32:29,900 --> 00:32:26,640
death oh well there's like the official

762
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:29,910
record there's a stash of newspaper

763
00:32:36,140 --> 00:32:33,090
articles at the Forrestal archives and

764
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:36,150
I've got three or four biographies on

765
00:32:41,030 --> 00:32:38,970
him you know written years ago and some

766
00:32:42,830 --> 00:32:41,040
more modern so it's basically you know

767
00:32:45,620 --> 00:32:42,840
the same way you would do anything

768
00:32:47,780 --> 00:32:45,630
archival research and and biographies on

769
00:32:49,580 --> 00:32:47,790
a newspaper report of course you know

770
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:49,590
there's probably nobody left from that

771
00:32:53,660 --> 00:32:51,690
period that was involved now in the

772
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:53,670
investigation you know we're talking 65

773
00:32:58,880 --> 00:32:56,250
years ago but I mean as Chris just

774
00:33:00,620 --> 00:32:58,890
pointed out the sort of nature of his

775
00:33:04,010 --> 00:33:00,630
death he's weird because the official

776
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:04,020
story is it because he was confined in

777
00:33:07,940 --> 00:33:06,330
the Bethesda hospital he spent most of

778
00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:07,950
his time in his dressing hour in his

779
00:33:12,740 --> 00:33:09,600
room all the stories that he took the

780
00:33:15,230 --> 00:33:12,750
cord which was a removable cord out of

781
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:15,240
his dressing gown tied one end of it

782
00:33:20,780 --> 00:33:17,850
round his neck then tied the other end

783
00:33:22,970 --> 00:33:20,790
to the radiator and then climbed up onto

784
00:33:25,580 --> 00:33:22,980
the windowsill and lowered himself out

785
00:33:27,470 --> 00:33:25,590
of the windowsill now you know he was

786
00:33:30,650 --> 00:33:27,480
only an average-sized guys not like at a

787
00:33:33,650 --> 00:33:30,660
a waste of 60 inches or something that

788
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:33,660
sounds highly unlikely yeah I mean you

789
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:36,570
imagine as I am visiting getting out of

790
00:33:40,100 --> 00:33:38,610
a window which is probably like about

791
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:40,110
three feet high

792
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:42,450
something when you've got one end of the

793
00:33:46,159 --> 00:33:44,010
rope round your neck and the other one's

794
00:33:47,419 --> 00:33:46,169
got to be tied around the radiator and

795
00:33:49,220 --> 00:33:47,429
you've probably got to tie both ends

796
00:33:51,620 --> 00:33:49,230
twice to make a double knot to keep it

797
00:33:54,139 --> 00:33:51,630
secure then you got to climb out and

798
00:33:55,940 --> 00:33:54,149
lower yourself down the other side you

799
00:33:59,090 --> 00:33:55,950
know I mean what are we talking about

800
00:34:01,279 --> 00:33:59,100
like a cord of six feet or something and

801
00:34:03,649 --> 00:34:01,289
what the official story is that when he

802
00:34:05,659 --> 00:34:03,659
lowered himself at the window and let go

803
00:34:08,450 --> 00:34:05,669
of the sill the way to his body

804
00:34:10,250 --> 00:34:08,460
supposedly snapped the cord and what

805
00:34:13,339 --> 00:34:10,260
happened was the official stories that

806
00:34:15,470 --> 00:34:13,349
he plummeted to the third-floor canopy

807
00:34:17,329 --> 00:34:15,480
that stuck out from the main path at the

808
00:34:19,070 --> 00:34:17,339
hospital and you know you're not gonna

809
00:34:21,649 --> 00:34:19,080
survive a fall like that and he didn't

810
00:34:23,389 --> 00:34:21,659
so there are a lot of anomalies and I

811
00:34:26,030 --> 00:34:23,399
think when you've got several anomalies

812
00:34:29,240 --> 00:34:26,040
and weird things going on at the very

813
00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:29,250
least we've got to kind of give it food

814
00:34:33,889 --> 00:34:31,679
for thought at the very least okay so

815
00:34:35,419 --> 00:34:33,899
even if he was off deliberately is there

816
00:34:38,810 --> 00:34:35,429
any reason to stretch that into

817
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:38,820
something related to UFOs no only by the

818
00:34:43,730 --> 00:34:41,010
fact that you know the date issues as

819
00:34:46,250 --> 00:34:43,740
they relate to Vannevar Bush and twining

820
00:34:49,010 --> 00:34:46,260
and the room is within you follow gee

821
00:34:51,109 --> 00:34:49,020
but they're unsubstantiated rumors I

822
00:34:54,260 --> 00:34:51,119
mean if you were to ask me could we

823
00:34:56,599 --> 00:34:54,270
apply to stress born out of the fear

824
00:34:58,849 --> 00:34:56,609
that the Cold War was gonna be a hot war

825
00:35:01,010 --> 00:34:58,859
and America would be destroyed maybe

826
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:01,020
couldn't handle that well maybe it was

827
00:35:04,609 --> 00:35:02,250
down to the fact that his relationship

828
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:04,619
with his wife wasn't well on the other

829
00:35:10,010 --> 00:35:07,050
hand maybe it was his wife the Russians

830
00:35:12,260 --> 00:35:10,020
and Roswell combined know who knows we

831
00:35:15,740 --> 00:35:12,270
really don't know one thing I've noticed

832
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:15,750
Nick here is that there was a document

833
00:35:21,380 --> 00:35:18,450
uncovered by Timothy Cooper who turned

834
00:35:24,290 --> 00:35:21,390
it over to Ryan and Bob wood and it

835
00:35:25,490 --> 00:35:24,300
it's an unofficially released document I

836
00:35:28,010 --> 00:35:25,500
think it's called the study of

837
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:28,020
assassination and and there is an

838
00:35:33,530 --> 00:35:31,050
interesting sentence allegedly that was

839
00:35:35,390 --> 00:35:33,540
written in there about the untimely

840
00:35:36,620 --> 00:35:35,400
death of secretary Forrestal do you want

841
00:35:39,310 --> 00:35:36,630
to address that a little bit and then

842
00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:39,320
talk about Forrestal making that very

843
00:35:45,140 --> 00:35:42,000
kind of oblique and and troubling

844
00:35:47,089 --> 00:35:45,150
comment to Supreme Court Justice William

845
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:47,099
O Douglas just to let you know we have

846
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:49,200
about 40 seconds before we have to break

847
00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:51,130
so start the answer here

848
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:54,400
then we'll go on with it okay well as

849
00:35:59,450 --> 00:35:56,410
far as this sort of controversial

850
00:36:03,300 --> 00:35:59,460
statements that he made is concerned

851
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:03,310
just literally something like a couple

852
00:36:07,380 --> 00:36:04,810
of weeks before his death he actually

853
00:36:09,260 --> 00:36:07,390
told William O Douglas there was an

854
00:36:12,390 --> 00:36:09,270
Associate Justice of the Supreme Court

855
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:12,400
omission exact words bill something

856
00:36:16,410 --> 00:36:14,890
awful is about to happen to me and this

857
00:36:18,180 --> 00:36:16,420
was right around the time when he was

858
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:18,190
getting paranoid he thought his mail was

859
00:36:22,050 --> 00:36:20,290
intercepted his phone was bugged and

860
00:36:24,030 --> 00:36:22,060
these creepy guys with wandering around

861
00:36:26,910 --> 00:36:24,040
his house this is only the beginning

862
00:36:29,190 --> 00:36:26,920
folks Nick Redfern joins us it's close

863
00:36:32,060 --> 00:36:29,200
encounters of the fatal kind we're

864
00:36:34,410 --> 00:36:32,070
looking at the curious death of

865
00:36:36,750 --> 00:36:34,420
Secretary of Defense James Forrestal

866
00:36:48,630 --> 00:36:36,760
more to come with Jeanne and Chris

867
00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:48,640
you're in you're listening to GCN

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by intense dreams about a beautiful

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terrible battle in outer space but the

878
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dreams turn out to be true and thrust

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970
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:02,170
hello this is John Burroughs one of the

971
00:41:07,420 --> 00:41:05,210
witnesses to the Rendlesham UFO incident

972
00:41:19,029 --> 00:41:07,430
you're listening to the podcast the gold

973
00:41:24,140 --> 00:41:21,199
by the way I just told Nick we're gonna

974
00:41:25,999 --> 00:41:24,150
leave that segment where he was figuring

975
00:41:28,429 --> 00:41:26,009
out that we were calling on him to do

976
00:41:31,519 --> 00:41:28,439
our stinger Nick Redfern joins us we're

977
00:41:33,589 --> 00:41:31,529
talking about the fact that the late

978
00:41:35,449 --> 00:41:33,599
James Forrestal shredding before his

979
00:41:38,209 --> 00:41:35,459
death he's speaking to a Supreme Court

980
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:38,219
justice and it sounds like a pretty

981
00:41:44,269 --> 00:41:41,249
paranoid piece of conversation that

982
00:41:45,859 --> 00:41:44,279
people are after him well people may

983
00:41:48,259 --> 00:41:45,869
have been after him I mean you know he

984
00:41:50,569 --> 00:41:48,269
held a significant position and he was

985
00:41:53,929 --> 00:41:50,579
the first secretary of defense and so a

986
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:53,939
lot was riding on him as a person to you

987
00:41:57,650 --> 00:41:56,249
know to do good in the job you know it

988
00:41:59,599 --> 00:41:57,660
wasn't like he was the latest in a long

989
00:42:03,019 --> 00:41:59,609
line he was a very first Secretary of

990
00:42:04,910 --> 00:42:03,029
Defense of the United States now the as

991
00:42:07,609 --> 00:42:04,920
Chris mentioned before the break we do

992
00:42:09,739 --> 00:42:07,619
have one highly controversial documents

993
00:42:11,959 --> 00:42:09,749
which surface fire Timothy Cooper a

994
00:42:14,599 --> 00:42:11,969
researcher was involved in ufology in

995
00:42:16,729 --> 00:42:14,609
the aura for the most part in medium

996
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:16,739
sort of mid to late 90s and then drifted

997
00:42:22,039 --> 00:42:18,890
away from it in the early 2000 and

998
00:42:23,959 --> 00:42:22,049
Cooper said that he received literally

999
00:42:26,390 --> 00:42:23,969
thousands of pages of documents from

1000
00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:26,400
various elderly and retired military

1001
00:42:30,829 --> 00:42:29,609
people who presumably had taken the

1002
00:42:33,679 --> 00:42:30,839
documents home with them when they

1003
00:42:36,279 --> 00:42:33,689
retired or had siphoned them out somehow

1004
00:42:40,009 --> 00:42:36,289
or other and one of these documents

1005
00:42:44,479 --> 00:42:40,019
talks about the necessity of protecting

1006
00:42:47,029 --> 00:42:44,489
the so called mj-12 program which could

1007
00:42:49,039 --> 00:42:47,039
involve you know sort of the ultimate

1008
00:42:52,939 --> 00:42:49,049
action of wiping people out and it

1009
00:42:55,279 --> 00:42:52,949
refers to the regrettable and necessary

1010
00:42:58,249 --> 00:42:55,289
death of defense secretary James

1011
00:43:00,829 --> 00:42:58,259
Forrestal now as I point out in the

1012
00:43:03,049 --> 00:43:00,839
intersection on this the fact that the

1013
00:43:05,419 --> 00:43:03,059
document has not surfaced under the

1014
00:43:07,370 --> 00:43:05,429
terms of the Freedom Information Act the

1015
00:43:08,959 --> 00:43:07,380
fact that it mentions mj-12 and a

1016
00:43:10,609 --> 00:43:08,969
significant number of people don't even

1017
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:10,619
believe in mj-12

1018
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:14,249
then it's very important that we view

1019
00:43:19,339 --> 00:43:16,410
the document for what it actually is a

1020
00:43:21,559 --> 00:43:19,349
questionable document without some sort

1021
00:43:23,299 --> 00:43:21,569
of provenance to it and that mentions a

1022
00:43:25,969 --> 00:43:23,309
group that has never been acknowledged

1023
00:43:28,039 --> 00:43:25,979
as officially existing and one of the

1024
00:43:29,780 --> 00:43:28,049
things I do find suspicious about this

1025
00:43:32,450 --> 00:43:29,790
is that anybody would even

1026
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:32,460
commit to writing essentially a

1027
00:43:38,270 --> 00:43:35,970
statement that confirms they essentially

1028
00:43:42,050 --> 00:43:38,280
murdered Forrestal you know it's kind of

1029
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:42,060
like somebody saying in November 63

1030
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:45,330
please dispatch three CIA agents to

1031
00:43:49,910 --> 00:43:47,610
murder President Kennedy and do it in

1032
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:49,920
English and make it look like Lee Harvey

1033
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:52,290
Oswald did it see what I mean putting

1034
00:43:56,900 --> 00:43:53,610
all that here up right and would not

1035
00:43:59,360 --> 00:43:56,910
happen and so I do find it you know a

1036
00:44:01,220 --> 00:43:59,370
little bit especially a lot suspicious

1037
00:44:04,250 --> 00:44:01,230
that somebody would commit something to

1038
00:44:06,830 --> 00:44:04,260
writing that they kill Forrestal and

1039
00:44:08,510 --> 00:44:06,840
actually you know leave it in a document

1040
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:08,520
that possibly anyone could pick up it's

1041
00:44:12,590 --> 00:44:10,890
it's almost sounds too good to be true

1042
00:44:14,690 --> 00:44:12,600
and it may well have been too good to be

1043
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:14,700
true what about this Timothy Cooper

1044
00:44:18,950 --> 00:44:16,890
character is he seems to be the kind of

1045
00:44:20,810 --> 00:44:18,960
guy who come up with this sort of thing

1046
00:44:23,090 --> 00:44:20,820
so do you think maybe he was fabricating

1047
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:23,100
all of it and once he accomplished his

1048
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:25,920
purpose he just left well I actually

1049
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:28,130
don't think that I tell you why because

1050
00:44:33,140 --> 00:44:30,930
the reason I don't think that Timothy

1051
00:44:35,420 --> 00:44:33,150
Cooper was the one who fabricated these

1052
00:44:38,090 --> 00:44:35,430
documents was because there were

1053
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:38,100
literally thousands of pages that blow

1054
00:44:41,210 --> 00:44:39,090
people don't realize that they think

1055
00:44:43,100 --> 00:44:41,220
Cooper received like just a few dozen it

1056
00:44:46,340 --> 00:44:43,110
wasn't it was thousands not all of them

1057
00:44:50,180 --> 00:44:46,350
are in the public domain and the

1058
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:50,190
typewriters used on them were all 1940s

1059
00:44:56,060 --> 00:44:53,280
and 50s era and there were like nine or

1060
00:44:57,950 --> 00:44:56,070
ten of them you know so if he faked all

1061
00:45:01,040 --> 00:44:57,960
the documents he went to an awful lot of

1062
00:45:03,830 --> 00:45:01,050
trouble to do nothing with his life than

1063
00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:03,840
fake all these papers and go out of his

1064
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:06,000
way to purchase nine or ten old

1065
00:45:12,260 --> 00:45:10,170
typewriters of different types and then

1066
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:12,270
put him out there for whatever obscure

1067
00:45:16,940 --> 00:45:13,770
reason I'm it's not like he ever wrote a

1068
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:16,950
book or sold them you know on Burnham

1069
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:20,370
onto a CD or whatever and sold them or

1070
00:45:22,460 --> 00:45:22,050
uploading them today on Kindle anything

1071
00:45:24,350 --> 00:45:22,470
like that

1072
00:45:27,770 --> 00:45:24,360
nothing at all you know he just gave

1073
00:45:31,610 --> 00:45:27,780
them to Bob wood and Brian Wood so I

1074
00:45:33,740 --> 00:45:31,620
tend to think that he was really at the

1075
00:45:36,230 --> 00:45:33,750
recipients of the documents but that

1076
00:45:38,210 --> 00:45:36,240
then sort of begs the question well who

1077
00:45:40,940 --> 00:45:38,220
was responsible for the documents what

1078
00:45:43,790 --> 00:45:40,950
was their line of thinking you know were

1079
00:45:45,170 --> 00:45:43,800
they on the level or would they deceived

1080
00:45:46,550 --> 00:45:45,180
well into thinking they were real

1081
00:45:48,380 --> 00:45:46,560
documents and they were given them by

1082
00:45:50,510 --> 00:45:48,390
somebody else you know there's so many

1083
00:45:54,350 --> 00:45:50,520
different aspects to this and the

1084
00:45:57,710 --> 00:45:54,360
problem is we don't necessarily know who

1085
00:46:01,520 --> 00:45:57,720
all of koper sources were they use names

1086
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:01,530
and first names and you know just terms

1087
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:03,930
that really they could have been aliases

1088
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:05,850
which you know makes the story even more

1089
00:46:09,620 --> 00:46:07,290
difficult when you're trying to figure

1090
00:46:12,710 --> 00:46:09,630
it all out so when you put all that

1091
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:12,720
together that's why I mentioned the

1092
00:46:15,980 --> 00:46:14,130
documents in the book because it relates

1093
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:15,990
to the story but I qualify it by

1094
00:46:21,910 --> 00:46:19,530
pointing out these various issues it is

1095
00:46:25,730 --> 00:46:21,920
kind of troublesome then when somebody

1096
00:46:28,430 --> 00:46:25,740
suddenly acquires access to something

1097
00:46:31,130 --> 00:46:28,440
that nobody else has access and then I

1098
00:46:35,090 --> 00:46:31,140
guess it kind of vanishes when he leaves

1099
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:35,100
the field more came to a halt when he

1100
00:46:38,030 --> 00:46:36,570
left the field but this is one of the

1101
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:38,040
things I always tell people is they're

1102
00:46:42,770 --> 00:46:39,930
you know if you're the recipient of a

1103
00:46:45,350 --> 00:46:42,780
really controversial story don't just

1104
00:46:47,210 --> 00:46:45,360
consider the story consider what you're

1105
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:47,220
doing at the time in the research field

1106
00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:49,770
that might warrant somebody trying to

1107
00:46:55,460 --> 00:46:53,280
discredit you now in other words it's

1108
00:46:59,180 --> 00:46:55,470
like if Chris during his cattle me

1109
00:47:01,370 --> 00:46:59,190
research suddenly gets leaked allegedly

1110
00:47:03,410 --> 00:47:01,380
you know an insider document that

1111
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:03,420
confirms one of the theories in his book

1112
00:47:09,860 --> 00:47:07,200
and then it turns out that the document

1113
00:47:11,090 --> 00:47:09,870
wasn't real after all you know that's

1114
00:47:13,850 --> 00:47:11,100
why you have to be very careful about

1115
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:13,860
what you do with these documents and how

1116
00:47:19,790 --> 00:47:16,530
you treat them because it may come to

1117
00:47:21,740 --> 00:47:19,800
backfire and when you talk about where

1118
00:47:23,690 --> 00:47:21,750
the Cooper faked them I personally don't

1119
00:47:25,070 --> 00:47:23,700
think he did because of these different

1120
00:47:26,870 --> 00:47:25,080
issues are brought up like the number of

1121
00:47:29,540 --> 00:47:26,880
typewriters and so on but there are

1122
00:47:31,580 --> 00:47:29,550
people in ufology who did think and

1123
00:47:33,590 --> 00:47:31,590
still do believe that Cooper was the

1124
00:47:35,330 --> 00:47:33,600
only person that the were no whistle

1125
00:47:37,580 --> 00:47:35,340
blows that he just began and ended with

1126
00:47:41,090 --> 00:47:37,590
Cooper so in other words if that isn't

1127
00:47:43,610 --> 00:47:41,100
true if he was deceived then he actually

1128
00:47:48,140 --> 00:47:43,620
had the the spiral and effect of

1129
00:47:50,300 --> 00:47:48,150
affecting his status and credibility as

1130
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:50,310
well and maybe that was the the goal all

1131
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:53,490
along okay he vanished from the UFO

1132
00:47:57,790 --> 00:47:55,650
field was any effort made to locate him

1133
00:48:00,560 --> 00:47:57,800
where'd he go whatever

1134
00:48:01,940 --> 00:48:00,570
it's not like he's vanished vanished no

1135
00:48:04,790 --> 00:48:01,950
he just said I'm retiring from the

1136
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:04,800
subject and after he made like a final

1137
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:06,690
few statements he just backed away from

1138
00:48:12,020 --> 00:48:08,970
it and people pretty much left him alone

1139
00:48:13,790 --> 00:48:12,030
and he went back to whatever his life

1140
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:13,800
was before I don't know what that was

1141
00:48:19,030 --> 00:48:16,530
but it's not like he vanished or there's

1142
00:48:21,350 --> 00:48:19,040
something sinister he just said you know

1143
00:48:22,970 --> 00:48:21,360
I think I think you brought up an

1144
00:48:25,460 --> 00:48:22,980
important point though Nick that he did

1145
00:48:27,710 --> 00:48:25,470
not try to capitalize on these documents

1146
00:48:31,730 --> 00:48:27,720
and that he never wrote a book he never

1147
00:48:33,740 --> 00:48:31,740
released them in any way - you know

1148
00:48:37,490 --> 00:48:33,750
maximize some sort of cash flow or

1149
00:48:40,220 --> 00:48:37,500
something so that does I guess you go in

1150
00:48:42,620 --> 00:48:40,230
the positive column as him truly

1151
00:48:45,230 --> 00:48:42,630
believing that these documents were real

1152
00:48:47,180 --> 00:48:45,240
and that he wasn't fabricating them yeah

1153
00:48:48,950 --> 00:48:47,190
I think this is a very important point a

1154
00:48:51,020 --> 00:48:48,960
lot of people don't appreciate that

1155
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:51,030
Cooper said he started to get these

1156
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:53,490
documents in like the early 90s or the

1157
00:48:57,140 --> 00:48:54,930
mid 90s and it was sort of the mid

1158
00:49:01,730 --> 00:48:57,150
nineties when they was really reaching

1159
00:49:04,750 --> 00:49:01,740
him to a large degree and as I said Bob

1160
00:49:09,410 --> 00:49:04,760
wood and Ryan Wood who I know very well

1161
00:49:10,849 --> 00:49:09,420
they got involved and they essentially

1162
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:10,859
said well we'd like to dig into this

1163
00:49:15,620 --> 00:49:13,650
further and Cooper said well okay that's

1164
00:49:17,540 --> 00:49:15,630
fine and sent them copies of the

1165
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:17,550
documents so they could be lucky in some

1166
00:49:21,500 --> 00:49:19,890
cases the originals were shared as well

1167
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:21,510
so they could be forensic Lee studied

1168
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:24,240
and so on but you write that Cooper

1169
00:49:29,810 --> 00:49:27,210
himself didn't write a book you know he

1170
00:49:32,300 --> 00:49:29,820
didn't write magazine articles was you

1171
00:49:36,410 --> 00:49:32,310
know I paying newspapers or whatever

1172
00:49:38,930 --> 00:49:36,420
he didn't on the lecture circuit all he

1173
00:49:42,070 --> 00:49:38,940
did was give UFO researchers the files

1174
00:49:44,300 --> 00:49:42,080
that he said he'd received from elderly

1175
00:49:47,630 --> 00:49:44,310
ex-military people and intelligence

1176
00:49:49,250 --> 00:49:47,640
people now yes I know studies have been

1177
00:49:51,349 --> 00:49:49,260
done quite good Studies on the various

1178
00:49:53,690 --> 00:49:51,359
reasons why people fake things and it's

1179
00:49:57,890 --> 00:49:53,700
not always as people think for money but

1180
00:49:59,359 --> 00:49:57,900
they usually is a reason now how the

1181
00:50:02,630 --> 00:49:59,369
only reason I can think of if it was a

1182
00:50:05,510 --> 00:50:02,640
hoax was to make the subject look

1183
00:50:07,430 --> 00:50:05,520
ridiculous but a lot of people bought

1184
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:07,440
into the documents and found them

1185
00:50:12,620 --> 00:50:10,890
intriguing so you know that that doesn't

1186
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:12,630
and I'm sure if people would have

1187
00:50:17,900 --> 00:50:13,890
realized that you know he wasn't a

1188
00:50:20,420 --> 00:50:17,910
stupid guy so in other words if he was

1189
00:50:22,430 --> 00:50:20,430
the hoaxer of yet to sir personally the

1190
00:50:25,490 --> 00:50:22,440
hoaxer yet to sort of come up with a

1191
00:50:28,099 --> 00:50:25,500
valid logical reason why he would do it

1192
00:50:29,329 --> 00:50:28,109
when you know he would have taken it you

1193
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:29,339
know what if it had just been say one

1194
00:50:32,690 --> 00:50:30,690
document of eight pages or something

1195
00:50:35,059 --> 00:50:32,700
that's different when it's thousands of

1196
00:50:37,579 --> 00:50:35,069
pages which would have taken him you

1197
00:50:39,289 --> 00:50:37,589
know I don't know how long to do but

1198
00:50:42,859 --> 00:50:39,299
puts it into like a completely different

1199
00:50:44,210 --> 00:50:42,869
ballpark yeah Timothy Cooper well if

1200
00:50:47,299 --> 00:50:44,220
Timothy Cooper is listening to the

1201
00:50:49,759 --> 00:50:47,309
podcast we'd sure as heck want to talk

1202
00:50:51,769 --> 00:50:49,769
to him and by the way there is a lot

1203
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:51,779
more to talk about other deaths it's not

1204
00:50:58,039 --> 00:50:55,920
just Forrestal as a matter of fact it's

1205
00:50:59,359 --> 00:50:58,049
not just MK Jessup and we'll get to that

1206
00:51:01,609 --> 00:50:59,369
a little bit later there are a few

1207
00:51:05,329 --> 00:51:01,619
others there a lot of stories to tell

1208
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:05,339
and Nick has put a lot of research

1209
00:51:09,500 --> 00:51:07,170
together the book is not huge it's like

1210
00:51:11,990 --> 00:51:09,510
200 some odd pages you'll read it in a

1211
00:51:14,839 --> 00:51:12,000
few hours and you'll be left thinking

1212
00:51:17,089 --> 00:51:14,849
what's he talking about here we want to

1213
00:51:20,029 --> 00:51:17,099
know okay the book is called Close

1214
00:51:23,269 --> 00:51:20,039
Encounters of the fatal kind suspicious

1215
00:51:26,329 --> 00:51:23,279
deaths mysterious murders and bizarre

1216
00:51:30,220 --> 00:51:26,339
disappearances in UFO history with Gene

1217
00:51:36,700 --> 00:51:30,230
and Chris you're in the podcast

1218
00:51:42,130 --> 00:51:40,359
great minds think alike the network for

1219
00:51:45,609 --> 00:51:42,140
the independent-minded

1220
00:51:49,089 --> 00:51:45,619
the genesis communications network G C

1221
00:51:51,070 --> 00:51:49,099
and hi this is Ted Anderson if you'd

1222
00:51:53,470 --> 00:51:51,080
like to listen to GCN programs on the

1223
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1227
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1228
00:52:05,260 --> 00:52:02,930
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1229
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1230
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1234
00:52:18,730 --> 00:52:16,130
GC and live.com again that's GC &

1235
00:52:20,470 --> 00:52:18,740
live.com hi this is Ted Anderson have

1236
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:20,480
you ever wondered why banks stockbrokers

1237
00:52:24,099 --> 00:52:22,130
investment advisors won't talk about

1238
00:52:26,500 --> 00:52:24,109
gold IRAs they've been available since

1239
00:52:28,300 --> 00:52:26,510
1986 yet the financial industry won't

1240
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:28,310
recognize the value of gold for your

1241
00:52:30,910 --> 00:52:28,970
retirement

1242
00:52:33,099 --> 00:52:30,920
gold has outperformed paper investments

1243
00:52:35,220 --> 00:52:33,109
yet no word about IRAs if you would like

1244
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:35,230
to have gold for your retirement call

1245
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:38,570
866 to 237 don't get left behind by

1246
00:53:20,940 --> 00:52:40,930
rising inflation and low returns call

1247
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1248
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1255
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1256
00:53:59,900 --> 00:53:57,150
the love of clean water welcome back to

1257
00:54:04,850 --> 00:53:59,910
the para cast the gold standard of

1258
00:54:12,230 --> 00:54:04,860
paranormal radio and now here's Jean

1259
00:54:14,390 --> 00:54:12,240
Steinberg with Jean and Chris in the

1260
00:54:17,380 --> 00:54:14,400
power cast and by way while this is

1261
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:17,390
happening there's a big thunderstorm

1262
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:20,490
consuming the area near where Chris

1263
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:21,930
lives what kind of thing this is a plot

1264
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:26,010
by MKULTRA to take over his research and

1265
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:29,610
send them going now let's get into that

1266
00:54:35,270 --> 00:54:32,850
in the first part of this book you also

1267
00:54:39,170 --> 00:54:35,280
talked about the various connections

1268
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:39,180
involving MK ULTRA tell our listeners

1269
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:39,810
what that's about

1270
00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:42,210
well MKULTRA is probably the most well

1271
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:44,250
known of all the various sort of mind

1272
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:46,970
manipulation programs that have been

1273
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:50,400
created over the decades by agencies all

1274
00:54:55,820 --> 00:54:53,130
around the world MKULTRA was the CIA's

1275
00:54:58,460 --> 00:54:55,830
project in sort of generic terms has

1276
00:55:00,200 --> 00:54:58,470
become known as mind-control but I mean

1277
00:55:03,470 --> 00:55:00,210
he actually covered a whole range of

1278
00:55:05,900 --> 00:55:03,480
different areas sort of everything from

1279
00:55:09,020 --> 00:55:05,910
drugging people and seeing how the mind

1280
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:09,030
and the memory could be affected to

1281
00:55:14,690 --> 00:55:12,650
hypnosis to all different things and but

1282
00:55:17,270 --> 00:55:14,700
generically it's become known as

1283
00:55:21,650 --> 00:55:17,280
mind-control now one of the key players

1284
00:55:23,690 --> 00:55:21,660
in the early years of MKULTRA was a man

1285
00:55:25,910 --> 00:55:23,700
named Frank Olson Frank Olson

1286
00:55:28,940 --> 00:55:25,920
interestingly enough died in an

1287
00:55:31,460 --> 00:55:28,950
extremely similar scenario to James

1288
00:55:34,220 --> 00:55:31,470
Forrestal Pete jump fell pushed how

1289
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:34,230
everyone determined about 2:30 in the

1290
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:37,890
morning of November the 28th from a room

1291
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:39,810
on the 10th floor of Manhattan Statler

1292
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:42,720
Hotel and what we know for sure is that

1293
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:45,090
not long before when he was still alive

1294
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:47,010
I should say not long before Olson

1295
00:55:52,010 --> 00:55:49,410
himself was actually dosed unknowingly

1296
00:55:54,350 --> 00:55:52,020
with LSD by one of his colleagues to see

1297
00:55:56,540 --> 00:55:54,360
what effects he would have on him and

1298
00:55:58,730 --> 00:55:56,550
had quite an adverse effect on him

1299
00:55:59,390 --> 00:55:58,740
they've been stories that it's sort of

1300
00:56:01,400 --> 00:55:59,400
almost

1301
00:56:04,609 --> 00:56:01,410
rewired his mind to the point where he

1302
00:56:07,339 --> 00:56:04,619
came to regret the sort of controversial

1303
00:56:09,140 --> 00:56:07,349
work that was being done in terms of

1304
00:56:10,730 --> 00:56:09,150
using guinea pigs sometimes against

1305
00:56:15,529 --> 00:56:10,740
their knowledge to see how they would

1306
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:15,539
react to things like LSD and to chemical

1307
00:56:19,069 --> 00:56:17,130
stimulants and things like this

1308
00:56:20,900 --> 00:56:19,079
and there was a fear that he was going

1309
00:56:22,670 --> 00:56:20,910
to go public and tell the press and the

1310
00:56:24,980 --> 00:56:22,680
public what was going on with his

1311
00:56:26,450 --> 00:56:24,990
program so that's kind of like the

1312
00:56:27,890 --> 00:56:26,460
scenario with forests still as well

1313
00:56:29,599 --> 00:56:27,900
where Forrestal was supposedly on the

1314
00:56:33,140 --> 00:56:29,609
brink of revealing what he knew about

1315
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:33,150
UFOs and also was gonna go public with

1316
00:56:39,259 --> 00:56:35,490
what he was what he knew about MKULTRA

1317
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:39,269
now nobody doubts of course MKULTRA

1318
00:56:44,210 --> 00:56:41,130
existed he was one of the sort of

1319
00:56:47,690 --> 00:56:44,220
leading most long-lasting mind-control

1320
00:56:49,220 --> 00:56:47,700
programs ever put into place well a lot

1321
00:56:52,190 --> 00:56:49,230
of people don't know is it Frank Olson

1322
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:52,200
had a number of ties to the UFO

1323
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:54,930
phenomenon now for example one of the

1324
00:57:01,940 --> 00:56:57,450
people who really aged with quite a lot

1325
00:57:06,259 --> 00:57:01,950
during the period from 1951 to 53 was

1326
00:57:08,049 --> 00:57:06,269
underage ipagora CH who wrote the sacred

1327
00:57:10,700 --> 00:57:08,059
mushroom a very good book all about

1328
00:57:13,549 --> 00:57:10,710
psychedelics and opening portals and

1329
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:13,559
doorways and so on and parara CH came to

1330
00:57:18,319 --> 00:57:16,170
believe that he was in like mind to mind

1331
00:57:20,569 --> 00:57:18,329
contact with extraterrestrials

1332
00:57:23,539 --> 00:57:20,579
well the Haaretz as well as being an

1333
00:57:26,329 --> 00:57:23,549
author and someone who was heavily

1334
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:26,339
involved in UFOs he was also a captain

1335
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:29,730
in the US Army from 53 to 55 he was

1336
00:57:33,650 --> 00:57:31,650
employed at the Edgewood Maryland Army

1337
00:57:37,210 --> 00:57:33,660
chemical Center which was doing very

1338
00:57:39,829 --> 00:57:37,220
similar work to impale Chur in the CIA

1339
00:57:41,989 --> 00:57:39,839
Olsen himself was actually based out at

1340
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:41,999
Camp Dietrich and because the worker

1341
00:57:46,700 --> 00:57:43,650
camp Dietrich an edge would cross paths

1342
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:46,710
a lot barrage and Olson crossed paths a

1343
00:57:52,489 --> 00:57:48,930
lot and actually discussed on many

1344
00:57:55,029 --> 00:57:52,499
occasions the whole UFO subject now one

1345
00:57:59,509 --> 00:57:55,039
of the other interesting links as well

1346
00:58:01,279 --> 00:57:59,519
is that in the early 1950s Olson spent a

1347
00:58:03,019 --> 00:58:01,289
lot of time at a place called Horn

1348
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:03,029
Island in Mississippi

1349
00:58:09,799 --> 00:58:06,930
now Horn Island is where a lot of highly

1350
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:09,809
secret research was undertaken into a

1351
00:58:14,670 --> 00:58:12,890
hallucinatory job drug called B's ed or

1352
00:58:16,750 --> 00:58:14,680
more appropriately known as buzz and

1353
00:58:19,020 --> 00:58:16,760
this would actually undertake the

1354
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:19,030
research Thunder taken by the army to

1355
00:58:24,460 --> 00:58:22,490
determine how well this substance could

1356
00:58:27,580 --> 00:58:24,470
actually affect the human mind and the

1357
00:58:30,370 --> 00:58:27,590
answer is to a great degree now what's

1358
00:58:32,650 --> 00:58:30,380
interesting is that Horn Island in

1359
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:32,660
Mississippi he's just like six miles

1360
00:58:38,380 --> 00:58:35,210
from where in 1973 we had the famous

1361
00:58:41,470 --> 00:58:38,390
Hickson and Parker Pascagoula alien

1362
00:58:44,590 --> 00:58:41,480
abduction story now there's nothing

1363
00:58:45,910 --> 00:58:44,600
directly linking the Pascagoula case of

1364
00:58:47,980 --> 00:58:45,920
course with MKULTRA

1365
00:58:49,900 --> 00:58:47,990
but I do know in the book and I think

1366
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:49,910
it's I think it's a fair point to note

1367
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:52,610
that this occurred as I said just a few

1368
00:58:57,580 --> 00:58:54,730
miles from where research was in

1369
00:59:00,460 --> 00:58:57,590
undertaken into aerosol base I should

1370
00:59:02,950 --> 00:59:00,470
say airborne Air Assault based chemical

1371
00:59:05,620 --> 00:59:02,960
stimulants to alter the human mindset

1372
00:59:07,150 --> 00:59:05,630
you know I don't necessarily think we

1373
00:59:09,580 --> 00:59:07,160
should rule that out and I think

1374
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:09,590
arguably that angle should be researched

1375
00:59:13,870 --> 00:59:12,050
much further but one of the really

1376
00:59:15,910 --> 00:59:13,880
interesting things and many people don't

1377
00:59:17,950 --> 00:59:15,920
know this at all means that none other

1378
00:59:20,020 --> 00:59:17,960
than John fuller who wrote be on

1379
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:20,030
interrupted journey arguably the first

1380
00:59:25,090 --> 00:59:22,130
book on alien abductions and certainly

1381
00:59:29,350 --> 00:59:25,100
one of the most definitive ones he got

1382
00:59:33,300 --> 00:59:29,360
an invite by people allied to MKULTRA to

1383
00:59:36,340 --> 00:59:33,310
write about MKULTRA and try and release

1384
00:59:38,050 --> 00:59:36,350
aspects of the story to the press why

1385
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:38,060
they might want to do that is like an

1386
00:59:43,060 --> 00:59:40,130
entirely different story but the

1387
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:43,070
interesting thing is that fuller became

1388
00:59:47,890 --> 00:59:46,730
fascinated by MKULTRA and mind-control

1389
00:59:50,530 --> 00:59:47,900
because he had sort of a little bit of

1390
00:59:52,780 --> 00:59:50,540
an inroad and he wrote a book called the

1391
00:59:55,570 --> 00:59:52,790
day of Saint Anthony's fire which is all

1392
00:59:58,240 --> 00:59:55,580
about a weird outbreak of hallucinations

1393
01:00:01,120 --> 00:59:58,250
in a little French village in 51 where

1394
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:01,130
it so happened that Frank Olson had

1395
01:00:06,910 --> 01:00:04,970
visited the area back in 51 and there

1396
01:00:09,250 --> 01:00:06,920
are also suggestions he may have been

1397
01:00:10,900 --> 01:00:09,260
somehow or his research but he was dead

1398
01:00:14,410 --> 01:00:10,910
at the time may have somehow provoked

1399
01:00:18,100 --> 01:00:14,420
the famous French wave of UFO encounters

1400
01:00:20,950 --> 01:00:18,110
that occurred in 1954 so we have a lot

1401
01:00:23,700 --> 01:00:20,960
of weird little links and stories going

1402
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:23,710
from John fuller to parish to Pascagoula

1403
01:00:29,470 --> 01:00:26,810
all linked with UFOs all linked with

1404
01:00:31,510 --> 01:00:29,480
an old linked with MKULTRA let me

1405
01:00:34,090 --> 01:00:31,520
dissect this here because I see

1406
01:00:35,980 --> 01:00:34,100
possibilities and obviously we can think

1407
01:00:38,260 --> 01:00:35,990
of Barney and Betty Hill especially

1408
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:38,270
because they had friends and lived near

1409
01:00:44,230 --> 01:00:41,890
military base so do we assume that

1410
01:00:48,010 --> 01:00:44,240
Barney and Betty hill and the Pascagoula

1411
01:00:51,910 --> 01:00:48,020
case may not have been UFO related

1412
01:00:52,750 --> 01:00:51,920
abduction cases but tests experiments

1413
01:00:55,690 --> 01:00:52,760
and mind control

1414
01:00:58,420 --> 01:00:55,700
yeah that's the theory that using things

1415
01:01:01,180 --> 01:00:58,430
like aerosol based technologies to

1416
01:01:03,700 --> 01:01:01,190
radically alter the mindset a certain

1417
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:03,710
people now I don't I don't think this is

1418
01:01:07,180 --> 01:01:05,330
going on left right and center and that

1419
01:01:10,210 --> 01:01:07,190
every case falls into that category

1420
01:01:11,290 --> 01:01:10,220
because the logistics which is yes you

1421
01:01:13,690 --> 01:01:11,300
know you never get away with it that

1422
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:13,700
many times but I think you would only

1423
01:01:18,190 --> 01:01:15,530
need to do it a few times to kind of

1424
01:01:21,430 --> 01:01:18,200
then perfect right like a meme it would

1425
01:01:23,410 --> 01:01:21,440
spread like wildfire and you know I

1426
01:01:26,140 --> 01:01:23,420
think it doesn't necessarily rule out

1427
01:01:28,750 --> 01:01:26,150
the idea of real abductions one of the

1428
01:01:31,950 --> 01:01:28,760
things that I find interesting is the I

1429
01:01:34,810 --> 01:01:31,960
the idea of the theory that because

1430
01:01:36,790 --> 01:01:34,820
maybe the official world the CIA or

1431
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:36,800
whoever knew there was a real UFO

1432
01:01:40,780 --> 01:01:38,690
phenomenon but because they couldn't

1433
01:01:42,370 --> 01:01:40,790
predict where are you if I would come

1434
01:01:44,110 --> 01:01:42,380
down or an incident would occur but they

1435
01:01:46,660 --> 01:01:44,120
still wanted to see the reaction on the

1436
01:01:48,340 --> 01:01:46,670
part of the population they might well

1437
01:01:50,500 --> 01:01:48,350
have staged a few events and then

1438
01:01:53,890 --> 01:01:50,510
clandestinely watched to see what the

1439
01:01:56,620 --> 01:01:53,900
reaction was how the media responded how

1440
01:01:59,500 --> 01:01:56,630
the UFO research community responded and

1441
01:02:01,270 --> 01:01:59,510
how popular culture responded to an

1442
01:02:02,890 --> 01:02:01,280
incident that didn't really occur but

1443
01:02:06,700 --> 01:02:02,900
that might have given them some sort of

1444
01:02:08,470 --> 01:02:06,710
insight into what might really occur in

1445
01:02:10,990 --> 01:02:08,480
the genuine UFO event so in other words

1446
01:02:12,970 --> 01:02:11,000
I'm not saying that they faked things

1447
01:02:15,190 --> 01:02:12,980
and there was no real phenomenon I'm

1448
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:15,200
saying they may have faked things to try

1449
01:02:19,930 --> 01:02:18,050
and gauge how the phenomenon might react

1450
01:02:22,270 --> 01:02:19,940
and because they set up the events they

1451
01:02:25,630 --> 01:02:22,280
were able to carefully watch and analyze

1452
01:02:28,420 --> 01:02:25,640
the results and so on that also brings

1453
01:02:30,700 --> 01:02:28,430
up the the connection the person that

1454
01:02:33,250 --> 01:02:30,710
kind of connects also into hearts and

1455
01:02:35,050 --> 01:02:33,260
others together and that's sidney

1456
01:02:36,700 --> 01:02:35,060
gottlieb who was the head of the Army

1457
01:02:39,310 --> 01:02:36,710
chemical Corps and talk about a

1458
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:39,320
nefarious individual then not many

1459
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:40,730
people really know that much

1460
01:02:45,790 --> 01:02:43,970
but some people say quit scar difference

1461
01:02:48,670 --> 01:02:45,800
until the x-files kind of modeled the

1462
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:48,680
cancer man character after the after the

1463
01:02:54,550 --> 01:02:50,810
old Stade Gottlieb why don't you talk

1464
01:02:56,410 --> 01:02:54,560
about Sidney Gottlieb in some of his his

1465
01:03:00,010 --> 01:02:56,420
role in all this kind of as the the

1466
01:03:00,450 --> 01:03:00,020
puppet masters hub zords well yeah I

1467
01:03:03,130 --> 01:03:00,460
mean

1468
01:03:06,310 --> 01:03:03,140
Godley was a very sort of interesting

1469
01:03:08,349 --> 01:03:06,320
and unusual guy had sort of you know

1470
01:03:13,060 --> 01:03:08,359
fingers in just about every pie so to

1471
01:03:16,540 --> 01:03:13,070
speak but what leave himself was someone

1472
01:03:18,580 --> 01:03:16,550
who was involved in the whole sort of

1473
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:18,590
mind control thing from the early years

1474
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:20,690
yeah she ran the chemical division they

1475
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:22,250
what was called the CIA's technical

1476
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:25,130
services stuff he was the guy basically

1477
01:03:29,470 --> 01:03:26,930
and we have to sum it up and continue

1478
01:03:35,010 --> 01:03:29,480
our next segment he's the guy who

1479
01:03:40,870 --> 01:03:38,530
he was the guy right okay Nick Redfern

1480
01:03:49,270 --> 01:03:40,880
is joining us with Gina and Chris you're

1481
01:03:51,490 --> 01:03:49,280
in do you need a website well you can

1482
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:51,500
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1491
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1492
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:16,910
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1493
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:18,410
attack of the rockets and it was a

1494
01:04:22,390 --> 01:04:20,450
critically acclaimed success and now

1495
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:22,400
there's the coming of the protectors a

1496
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:24,530
former military intelligence man is

1497
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:26,810
contacted by a space woman in a dream a

1498
01:04:31,030 --> 01:04:28,850
dream that turns out to be a nightmare

1499
01:04:33,070 --> 01:04:31,040
because evil forces on our distant

1500
01:04:35,410 --> 01:04:33,080
planet are planning to conquer the earth

1501
01:04:38,140 --> 01:04:35,420
this is gripping science fiction of the

1502
01:04:39,609 --> 01:04:38,150
classic kind attack of the rock ODEs and

1503
01:04:42,010 --> 01:04:39,619
the coming of the protectors

1504
01:04:47,470 --> 01:04:42,020
find out more at Rocko it's calm that's

1505
01:04:49,510 --> 01:04:47,480
rockets are Ock oids calm hi John

1506
01:04:51,220 --> 01:04:49,520
Huebner fremitus resources are you tired

1507
01:04:52,890 --> 01:04:51,230
of watching your hard-earned assets twin

1508
01:04:54,450 --> 01:04:52,900
Deloitte has government spending

1509
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:54,460
is out of hand and the Federal Reserve

1510
01:04:58,710 --> 01:04:56,770
is creating in excess of 20 billion a

1511
01:05:00,330 --> 01:04:58,720
week are you tired of stockbrokers

1512
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:00,340
gambling away your hard-earned money is

1513
01:05:05,460 --> 01:05:02,530
this market a setup for a crash greater

1514
01:05:06,990 --> 01:05:05,470
than 1987 too many of today's policies

1515
01:05:11,250 --> 01:05:07,000
resemble those that led to the collapse

1516
01:05:13,980 --> 01:05:11,260
of 1929 this is Jon humor and that was

1517
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:13,990
me in 2007 and we all know what happened

1518
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:15,970
when the subprime credit bubble burst by

1519
01:05:20,910 --> 01:05:18,730
March 2009 the dollar lost 50% of its

1520
01:05:22,650 --> 01:05:20,920
value the entire US banking system was

1521
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:22,660
on the verge of collapsing like all

1522
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:24,370
financial problems of the past is

1523
01:05:29,430 --> 01:05:25,930
history about to repeat itself

1524
01:05:32,190 --> 01:05:29,440
call me John Hamner at 1-866-37

1525
01:05:33,870 --> 01:05:32,200
extension 129 before it's too late to

1526
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:33,880
protect yourself while the oncoming

1527
01:05:38,610 --> 01:05:36,610
catastrophe take all private IRAs 401

1528
01:05:40,830 --> 01:05:38,620
k's with it there is a way to protect

1529
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:40,840
your hard-earned assets call me John

1530
01:05:52,740 --> 01:05:51,090
mom's of America stand up and stop

1531
01:05:55,830 --> 01:05:52,750
taking abuse from your kids

1532
01:05:56,700 --> 01:05:55,840
I pledge never to let my kid disrespect

1533
01:05:59,460 --> 01:05:56,710
me ever again

1534
01:06:02,430 --> 01:05:59,470
I pledge to stop letting my daughter

1535
01:06:05,580 --> 01:06:02,440
walk all over me I pledge to stop living

1536
01:06:07,860 --> 01:06:05,590
in fear of my son's anger I pledge never

1537
01:06:10,500 --> 01:06:07,870
to feel like a bad parent ever again

1538
01:06:12,810 --> 01:06:10,510
because I'm not I pledge to stop letting

1539
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:12,820
my child's behavior control my home I

1540
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:15,250
pledge to be a mom with kids who listen

1541
01:06:19,890 --> 01:06:18,130
a total transformation mom i'm janet

1542
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:19,900
lehman co-creator of the total

1543
01:06:24,210 --> 01:06:22,330
transformation program we created the

1544
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:24,220
total transformation to help parents

1545
01:06:28,740 --> 01:06:26,530
with difficult child behavior now I'm

1546
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:28,750
giving it away free all you need to do

1547
01:06:32,430 --> 01:06:30,730
is get the program and let us know how

1548
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:32,440
it works for you we'll let you keep it

1549
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:35,410
for free call 1-800 two five six seven

1550
01:06:40,260 --> 01:06:37,330
seven nine five that's one eight hundred

1551
01:06:43,410 --> 01:06:40,270
two five six seven seven nine five call

1552
01:06:45,690 --> 01:06:43,420
now call 1-800 - five six seven seven

1553
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:45,700
nine five that's one eight hundred two

1554
01:06:51,300 --> 01:06:48,370
five six seven seven nine five what good

1555
01:06:52,980 --> 01:06:51,310
is a big berkey water filter we get that

1556
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:52,990
question a lot here at big berkey water

1557
01:06:57,690 --> 01:06:55,570
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1558
01:07:00,390 --> 01:06:57,700
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1559
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:00,400
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1560
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1561
01:07:05,870 --> 01:07:03,940
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1562
01:07:07,700 --> 01:07:05,880
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1563
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1564
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1566
01:07:16,250 --> 01:07:14,430
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1567
01:07:18,530 --> 01:07:16,260
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1568
01:07:20,510 --> 01:07:18,540
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1569
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1570
01:07:22,850 --> 01:07:22,290
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1571
01:07:25,790 --> 01:07:22,860
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1572
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:25,800
that means big savings big berkey the

1573
01:07:29,930 --> 01:07:27,690
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1574
01:07:32,150 --> 01:07:29,940
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1575
01:07:34,460 --> 01:07:32,160
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1576
01:07:36,650 --> 01:07:34,470
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1577
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1578
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1580
01:07:49,460 --> 01:07:44,340
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1581
01:07:54,450 --> 01:07:52,440
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

1582
01:07:58,140 --> 01:07:54,460
comment or question about the para cast

1583
01:08:01,710 --> 01:07:58,150
sent it to news at the para cast com

1584
01:08:03,870 --> 01:08:01,720
that's news at the para cast dot-com and

1585
01:08:07,050 --> 01:08:03,880
don't forget to visit our famous para

1586
01:08:08,849 --> 01:08:07,060
cast community forums at forum dot the

1587
01:08:12,870 --> 01:08:08,859
para cast dot-com

1588
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:12,880
I want to say this honestly Chris

1589
01:08:19,079 --> 01:08:15,010
O'Brien and Nick Redfern will not

1590
01:08:21,420 --> 01:08:19,089
replace the Beach Boys or the Everly

1591
01:08:21,959 --> 01:08:21,430
Brothers for that matter No thank God

1592
01:08:23,579 --> 01:08:21,969
for that

1593
01:08:28,229 --> 01:08:23,589
I don't know would you like their money

1594
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:28,239
though but ok let's go back to the

1595
01:08:33,709 --> 01:08:30,850
strange case of Sidney Gottlieb and

1596
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:33,719
you're telling me here he's the guy who

1597
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:36,130
administered the chemicals or was

1598
01:08:41,670 --> 01:08:38,650
responsible for directing this but how

1599
01:08:43,650 --> 01:08:41,680
can you say then that a lot of the UFO

1600
01:08:46,440 --> 01:08:43,660
cases especially in the early years

1601
01:08:48,300 --> 01:08:46,450
weren't mind-control efforts well the

1602
01:08:50,940 --> 01:08:48,310
least I don't think they were is because

1603
01:08:53,220 --> 01:08:50,950
if we look at the reports we're really

1604
01:08:55,349 --> 01:08:53,230
credible reports where we had pilots

1605
01:08:58,190 --> 01:08:55,359
chasing what was clearly structured

1606
01:09:00,990 --> 01:08:58,200
objects and where there was ground radar

1607
01:09:02,910 --> 01:09:01,000
corroboration as well and these things

1608
01:09:05,249 --> 01:09:02,920
of you know outperforming our aircraft

1609
01:09:07,860 --> 01:09:05,259
you know flying left and right-hand

1610
01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:07,870
turns I'd I just don't see how they

1611
01:09:13,229 --> 01:09:10,330
could have been fabricated in like 47 48

1612
01:09:16,260 --> 01:09:13,239
49 now I think it's a whole different

1613
01:09:20,370 --> 01:09:16,270
thing when you possibly you know you

1614
01:09:24,300 --> 01:09:20,380
target someone on an isolated stretch of

1615
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:24,310
river and you know you dose them up with

1616
01:09:30,539 --> 01:09:28,210
an aerosol based psychedelic then that's

1617
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:30,549
totally different but I just don't see

1618
01:09:36,150 --> 01:09:33,370
how something like like the Washington

1619
01:09:38,999 --> 01:09:36,160
DC waiver 52 I just don't see how that

1620
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:39,009
could be fabricated would require going

1621
01:09:42,979 --> 01:09:40,770
to the air traffic controllers

1622
01:09:48,300 --> 01:09:42,989
administering this chemical and

1623
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:48,310
impacting lots of other people now now I

1624
01:09:52,170 --> 01:09:49,810
should tell our listeners we have lots

1625
01:09:54,269 --> 01:09:52,180
of questions from your fellow listeners

1626
01:09:56,580 --> 01:09:54,279
I don't think we'll get to all of them

1627
01:09:57,900 --> 01:09:56,590
and we have a couple of critical

1628
01:10:00,300 --> 01:09:57,910
comments we want to get to those in a

1629
01:10:01,470 --> 01:10:00,310
moment but I want to hit on something

1630
01:10:03,050 --> 01:10:01,480
you spend

1631
01:10:07,250 --> 01:10:03,060
a whole chapter in the book about this

1632
01:10:10,950 --> 01:10:07,260
pass MKULTRA or maybe related to it

1633
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:10,960
President Kennedy now we know about all

1634
01:10:15,750 --> 01:10:13,690
the theories about his assassination but

1635
01:10:18,810 --> 01:10:15,760
how the heck can you possibly connect

1636
01:10:21,180 --> 01:10:18,820
any of that whatever you think about it

1637
01:10:24,690 --> 01:10:21,190
to UFOs well actually the answer is

1638
01:10:27,060 --> 01:10:24,700
quite easily all right there's actually

1639
01:10:30,330 --> 01:10:27,070
a lot of data and people and players

1640
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:30,340
that are linked to the UFO subject who

1641
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:33,130
also played northern significant roles

1642
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:35,410
in the Kennedy assassination I mean one

1643
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:37,810
perfect example very controversial case

1644
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:41,050
of 47 the Mauri Island case which some

1645
01:10:44,970 --> 01:10:43,570
people probably use outright hoax that

1646
01:10:47,070 --> 01:10:44,980
ended in tragedy other people think

1647
01:10:49,350 --> 01:10:47,080
there's a legitimate event where the

1648
01:10:52,590 --> 01:10:49,360
Maury island in Tacoma Washington state

1649
01:10:56,190 --> 01:10:52,600
in June 47 supposedly one of a number of

1650
01:10:57,900 --> 01:10:56,200
UFOs exploded over the harbor shared all

1651
01:11:01,320 --> 01:10:57,910
this strange wreckage down into the

1652
01:11:04,979 --> 01:11:01,330
water some of which was pulled out by a

1653
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:04,989
man named Harold Dahl who then handed

1654
01:11:09,090 --> 01:11:06,970
you over to once there a friend of his

1655
01:11:11,100 --> 01:11:09,100
but some people view him as like he's

1656
01:11:14,250 --> 01:11:11,110
superior at work or just somebody who

1657
01:11:17,130 --> 01:11:14,260
had some hold over Dahl a guy named Fred

1658
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:17,140
Chrisman now the wreckage was then

1659
01:11:21,450 --> 01:11:18,970
handed over to two military guys who

1660
01:11:22,770 --> 01:11:21,460
were supposed to fly to right failed as

1661
01:11:25,050 --> 01:11:22,780
it was called at the time all right

1662
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:25,060
Patterson today well I like barely got

1663
01:11:28,440 --> 01:11:26,650
into the air when their plane exploded

1664
01:11:29,370 --> 01:11:28,450
they were both killed and the wreckage

1665
01:11:32,010 --> 01:11:29,380
was never found

1666
01:11:33,590 --> 01:11:32,020
two of the local media guys died and

1667
01:11:35,940 --> 01:11:33,600
Kenneth Arnold who was out there

1668
01:11:38,810 --> 01:11:35,950
investigating the case he almost died

1669
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:38,820
when he took to the air in his plane and

1670
01:11:44,850 --> 01:11:43,090
the engine failed and he just managed to

1671
01:11:47,250 --> 01:11:44,860
get down in one piece and he turned out

1672
01:11:49,290 --> 01:11:47,260
whoever refueled his plane hadn't shut

1673
01:11:51,030 --> 01:11:49,300
the fuel valve and the fuel started to

1674
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:51,040
freeze the higher he got in the sky

1675
01:11:55,410 --> 01:11:53,410
whatever you silly dumb mistakes or

1676
01:11:56,910 --> 01:11:55,420
maybe not a mistake well it could have

1677
01:11:58,560 --> 01:11:56,920
been a mistake but then we find as I

1678
01:12:00,540 --> 01:11:58,570
said there were two local media deaths

1679
01:12:03,060 --> 01:12:00,550
painted actually reported on the case

1680
01:12:04,290 --> 01:12:03,070
and the two military guys flying the

1681
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:04,300
wreckage died you know we're talking

1682
01:12:08,970 --> 01:12:06,370
four five deaths in a very short period

1683
01:12:11,100 --> 01:12:08,980
of time office give me four deaths and

1684
01:12:11,340 --> 01:12:11,110
almost five in such a short period of

1685
01:12:13,979 --> 01:12:11,350
time

1686
01:12:15,270 --> 01:12:13,989
now fredchristman who the wreckage was

1687
01:12:17,430 --> 01:12:15,280
handed over to

1688
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:17,440
actually turned up in the Kennedy

1689
01:12:23,130 --> 01:12:20,530
assassination to the extent the Jim

1690
01:12:25,890 --> 01:12:23,140
Garrison the new New Orleans District

1691
01:12:27,810 --> 01:12:25,900
Attorney came to believe the Chrisman

1692
01:12:28,500 --> 01:12:27,820
was one of the gunmen in the Kennedy

1693
01:12:32,010 --> 01:12:28,510
assassination

1694
01:12:36,030 --> 01:12:32,020
now Chrisman was also an acquaintance

1695
01:12:38,970 --> 01:12:36,040
and and friend of former FBI agent named

1696
01:12:41,310 --> 01:12:38,980
guy Bannister well guy banished it was

1697
01:12:43,590 --> 01:12:41,320
someone who undertook extensive UFO

1698
01:12:46,590 --> 01:12:43,600
investigations for the FBI in the summer

1699
01:12:48,330 --> 01:12:46,600
of 47 his UFO files have now been

1700
01:12:49,860 --> 01:12:48,340
Declassified through freed of

1701
01:12:51,900 --> 01:12:49,870
information I've got them and they're

1702
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:51,910
about 60 pages in length all together

1703
01:12:55,620 --> 01:12:54,250
some were more significant than others

1704
01:12:57,300 --> 01:12:55,630
but they show that he was in the

1705
01:12:59,250 --> 01:12:57,310
forefront in the early years and he was

1706
01:13:03,570 --> 01:12:59,260
actually given a briefing on the subject

1707
01:13:06,180 --> 01:13:03,580
in 47 by the Army in Utah now that's

1708
01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:06,190
just two connections a third one one of

1709
01:13:10,290 --> 01:13:08,770
the theories about Kennedy's death is

1710
01:13:13,020 --> 01:13:10,300
that he was on the verge of revealing

1711
01:13:17,670 --> 01:13:13,030
what he knew about UFOs well he was shot

1712
01:13:21,090 --> 01:13:17,680
on November the 22nd 1963 on November

1713
01:13:24,150 --> 01:13:21,100
the 21st 1963 Kennedy flew into Brooks

1714
01:13:26,250 --> 01:13:24,160
Air Force Base in Texas where he was due

1715
01:13:28,350 --> 01:13:26,260
to open a new wing which was dedicated

1716
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:28,360
to what at the time was called space

1717
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:30,130
medicine when this is like the early

1718
01:13:34,140 --> 01:13:32,890
years of outer space research and so on

1719
01:13:36,060 --> 01:13:34,150
there were a lot of concerns about how

1720
01:13:39,270 --> 01:13:36,070
the human body might be affected by

1721
01:13:41,970 --> 01:13:39,280
exposure to low gravity and cosmic rays

1722
01:13:43,440 --> 01:13:41,980
and or no gravity that was the purpose

1723
01:13:46,110 --> 01:13:43,450
of this new wing of Brooks

1724
01:13:49,050 --> 01:13:46,120
well when Kennedy was at Brooks he had a

1725
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:49,060
behind-closed-doors meeting with a guy

1726
01:13:54,300 --> 01:13:51,970
named Major General Theodore Bedwell it

1727
01:13:57,690 --> 01:13:54,310
turns out that Theodore Bagwell held a

1728
01:14:00,360 --> 01:13:57,700
major medical position at Wright Field

1729
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:00,370
wright-patterson in the summer of 1947

1730
01:14:05,310 --> 01:14:02,890
the very time when supposedly the alien

1731
01:14:05,820 --> 01:14:05,320
bodies from Roswell were taken to Wright

1732
01:14:08,460 --> 01:14:05,830
Field

1733
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:08,470
so in other words he would have been one

1734
01:14:13,170 --> 01:14:10,930
of the ideal people at least to see the

1735
01:14:15,450 --> 01:14:13,180
bodies because of this senior medical

1736
01:14:17,580 --> 01:14:15,460
position he held now somebody else who

1737
01:14:19,740 --> 01:14:17,590
also had a behind closed meeting with

1738
01:14:22,110 --> 01:14:19,750
Ellen closed-doors meeting with Brooks

1739
01:14:25,110 --> 01:14:22,120
Air Force Base was a colonel Harold

1740
01:14:27,780 --> 01:14:25,120
Ellingson the US Air Force who held

1741
01:14:29,100 --> 01:14:27,790
again a major medical position but this

1742
01:14:31,530 --> 01:14:29,110
time at Fort Detrick

1743
01:14:33,770 --> 01:14:31,540
Ireland and have been lot of stories

1744
01:14:36,930 --> 01:14:33,780
about alien bodies and tissue samples

1745
01:14:39,629 --> 01:14:36,940
taken to Fort Dietrich all the concerns

1746
01:14:42,180 --> 01:14:39,639
about alien viruses and things like that

1747
01:14:43,470 --> 01:14:42,190
and Fort Dietrich is where the

1748
01:14:45,030 --> 01:14:43,480
government does do all of it sort of

1749
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:45,040
research into viruses and whatever

1750
01:14:51,990 --> 01:14:48,130
Colonel Ellingson was also at Fort

1751
01:14:54,390 --> 01:14:52,000
Dietrich in July 1947 so he's the only

1752
01:14:55,979 --> 01:14:54,400
coincidence but on the day before he was

1753
01:14:58,379 --> 01:14:55,989
shot Kennedy had meetings with two

1754
01:15:01,140 --> 01:14:58,389
high-ranking military personnel both of

1755
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:01,150
who in July 47 was stationed at places

1756
01:15:06,689 --> 01:15:03,850
that are supposedly had connections to

1757
01:15:08,550 --> 01:15:06,699
crashed UFOs and dead alien bodies so

1758
01:15:10,830 --> 01:15:08,560
why would you kill Kennedy is there the

1759
01:15:12,810 --> 01:15:10,840
fear that he would disclose some guilty

1760
01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:12,820
knowledge to the public that were being

1761
01:15:18,419 --> 01:15:16,449
visited that was a concern supposedly at

1762
01:15:20,700 --> 01:15:18,429
least that or the theory that he was

1763
01:15:22,439 --> 01:15:20,710
going to go public with everything but

1764
01:15:24,180 --> 01:15:22,449
not just with the public the other

1765
01:15:25,859 --> 01:15:24,190
concern was that he was going to go

1766
01:15:28,140 --> 01:15:25,869
straight to the Soviets and share

1767
01:15:30,090 --> 01:15:28,150
everything with them because his fear

1768
01:15:32,129 --> 01:15:30,100
was that if there was an imbalance of

1769
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:32,139
power it might cause the Soviets to

1770
01:15:37,229 --> 01:15:34,810
panic and launch a first strike so the

1771
01:15:39,990 --> 01:15:37,239
theory is that by continuing a balance

1772
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:40,000
of power neither side would ever start a

1773
01:15:44,310 --> 01:15:42,010
war because they realized neither side

1774
01:15:46,979 --> 01:15:44,320
could win so that's the official story

1775
01:15:48,540 --> 01:15:46,989
now what is interesting is an official

1776
01:15:50,970 --> 01:15:48,550
document has surfaced through the

1777
01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:50,980
Freedom of Information Act dated just a

1778
01:15:56,010 --> 01:15:53,170
few days before Kennedy's death where he

1779
01:15:58,290 --> 01:15:56,020
talked to NASA actually about opening of

1780
01:16:00,000 --> 01:15:58,300
outer space affairs with the Soviets

1781
01:16:02,459 --> 01:16:00,010
that is actual fact he doesn't mention

1782
01:16:04,620 --> 01:16:02,469
UFOs but the fact that he wanted to

1783
01:16:06,570 --> 01:16:04,630
share data with the Soviets on outer

1784
01:16:09,149 --> 01:16:06,580
space matters that document he's

1785
01:16:10,950 --> 01:16:09,159
absolutely 100% genuine and again you

1786
01:16:13,290 --> 01:16:10,960
know as I said it's just dated a few

1787
01:16:15,149 --> 01:16:13,300
days before his death so when you got

1788
01:16:17,340 --> 01:16:15,159
all these different angles we're yes

1789
01:16:19,109 --> 01:16:17,350
it's a bunch of jigsaw pieces on a table

1790
01:16:21,899 --> 01:16:19,119
but I think these are pieces that

1791
01:16:24,209 --> 01:16:21,909
actually do to a degree at least once we

1792
01:16:26,310 --> 01:16:24,219
finish our break Chris has a comment

1793
01:16:28,950 --> 01:16:26,320
some questions to ask you the book is

1794
01:16:30,930 --> 01:16:28,960
Close Encounters of the fatal kind Nick

1795
01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:30,940
Redfern joins us with Jean and Chris

1796
01:16:41,140 --> 01:16:38,650
you're listening to GCN proudly

1797
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:41,150
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Birk e.com home of a perky guy this

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1848
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leaders of organizations who've been

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waiting for the right time to build

1850
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:00,280
general Steel has made it impossible to

1851
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wait any longer with rock-bottom prices

1852
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1853
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right general steel America's leader in

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1855
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1856
01:19:16,290 --> 01:19:13,180
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1857
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1858
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1859
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manufacturers if you need a larger

1860
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building try a 100 by 100 commercial

1861
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building for a hundred and twenty nine

1862
01:19:28,410 --> 01:19:26,020
thousand you can't afford to rent with

1863
01:19:29,940 --> 01:19:28,420
these prices imagine a 70 by 100 foot

1864
01:19:31,770 --> 01:19:29,950
church building for under sixty nine

1865
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:31,780
thousand dollars with the economy

1866
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improving and interest rate still at

1867
01:19:40,140 --> 01:19:35,860
historic lows you can't afford to wait

1868
01:19:44,250 --> 01:19:40,150
so call 866 91 steel lock in your price

1869
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1870
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1871
01:19:51,330 --> 01:19:49,540
thirty-five question could too many GMO

1872
01:19:54,090 --> 01:19:51,340
foods and toxins be overloading your

1873
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digestive and immune systems answer yes

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1879
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1880
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1881
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1883
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1885
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1886
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1887
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1896
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1897
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[Music]

1898
01:20:58,379 --> 01:20:56,530
this is 37 the author of us on the

1899
01:21:03,329 --> 01:20:58,389
streets and you're listening to the para

1900
01:21:05,699 --> 01:21:03,339
cast with Jean and Chris in the para

1901
01:21:08,159 --> 01:21:05,709
cast the book is Close Encounters of the

1902
01:21:10,799 --> 01:21:08,169
faithful kind by Nick Redfern says it's

1903
01:21:13,199 --> 01:21:10,809
gonna be his last conspiratorial book

1904
01:21:16,889 --> 01:21:13,209
Chris O'Brien you had something to tell

1905
01:21:19,789 --> 01:21:16,899
us what I was just gonna ask Nick about

1906
01:21:22,099 --> 01:21:19,799
his very intriguing research into the

1907
01:21:24,750 --> 01:21:22,109
fairly recent theory that Marilyn Monroe

1908
01:21:27,509 --> 01:21:24,760
who I think it's been fairly well

1909
01:21:29,279 --> 01:21:27,519
established had clandestino

1910
01:21:31,939 --> 01:21:29,289
relationships with not only would JFK

1911
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:31,949
but with his brother Robert Kennedy

1912
01:21:38,579 --> 01:21:35,530
there's been some talk in recent years

1913
01:21:40,889 --> 01:21:38,589
that possibly Marilyn Monroe was going

1914
01:21:43,079 --> 01:21:40,899
to spill the beans not only about the

1915
01:21:47,009 --> 01:21:43,089
relationship with the Kennedys that she

1916
01:21:49,399 --> 01:21:47,019
had but also about the UFO subject and

1917
01:21:51,929 --> 01:21:49,409
Nick I remember last year at the

1918
01:21:54,809 --> 01:21:51,939
paradigm symposium you addressed this

1919
01:21:57,089 --> 01:21:54,819
very intriguing the hypothesis do you

1920
01:21:58,649 --> 01:21:57,099
care to comment on that maybe supplement

1921
01:22:01,259 --> 01:21:58,659
some of the things he said about Kennedy

1922
01:22:06,029 --> 01:22:01,269
well yes I mention all this in the book

1923
01:22:08,129 --> 01:22:06,039
and this story goes back to 1995 when an

1924
01:22:10,319 --> 01:22:08,139
author who's now deceased a man named my

1925
01:22:12,929 --> 01:22:10,329
loves briglio who actually wrote three

1926
01:22:14,669 --> 01:22:12,939
books on Marilyn Monroe's death or from

1927
01:22:18,750 --> 01:22:14,679
the perspective that she was murdered

1928
01:22:20,699 --> 01:22:18,760
or allowed to die he went public in 1995

1929
01:22:22,979 --> 01:22:20,709
in a press release which was accompanied

1930
01:22:25,319 --> 01:22:22,989
by a press conference where he talked

1931
01:22:27,719 --> 01:22:25,329
about having received the documents that

1932
01:22:31,859 --> 01:22:27,729
essentially was like a one-page summary

1933
01:22:33,119 --> 01:22:31,869
of a wiretap between a worm Dorothy

1934
01:22:37,169 --> 01:22:33,129
Kilgallen who was a well-known

1935
01:22:39,239 --> 01:22:37,179
journalist in the 50s and 60s and a man

1936
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:39,249
named Howard Roth Burke who was a mutual

1937
01:22:43,500 --> 01:22:41,530
friend of Kilgallen and Marilyn Monroe

1938
01:22:44,849 --> 01:22:43,510
and just before I get to the next bit of

1939
01:22:46,109 --> 01:22:44,859
the story it's worth pointing out that

1940
01:22:48,389 --> 01:22:46,119
Dorothy Kilgallen

1941
01:22:52,469 --> 01:22:48,399
had an interest in UFOs he traveled to

1942
01:22:54,239 --> 01:22:52,479
England in 55 with her husband and later

1943
01:22:56,069 --> 01:22:54,249
wrote up a story for one of the Los

1944
01:22:58,199 --> 01:22:56,079
Angeles newspapers where she spoke about

1945
01:23:00,220 --> 01:22:58,209
how when she was in England she met

1946
01:23:03,580 --> 01:23:00,230
high-ranking British government official

1947
01:23:05,500 --> 01:23:03,590
who told her or confided in her but the

1948
01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:05,510
Brits had got their hands on a crashed

1949
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:07,850
UFO which was described as being piloted

1950
01:23:13,270 --> 01:23:10,850
by quote small men and she was also the

1951
01:23:16,030 --> 01:23:13,280
last person to interview Jack Ruby the

1952
01:23:18,250 --> 01:23:16,040
man who shot Lee Harvey Oswald so she's

1953
01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:18,260
got UFO threads running through her and

1954
01:23:22,930 --> 01:23:20,210
Kennedy threads as well but back to the

1955
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:22,940
story this purported CIA document

1956
01:23:26,830 --> 01:23:24,770
supposedly a wiretap summary of a

1957
01:23:29,530 --> 01:23:26,840
conversation between Rothberg Harig

1958
01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:29,540
Rothberg and Dorothy Kilgallen and it

1959
01:23:34,150 --> 01:23:31,970
talks about how Marilyn Monroe had

1960
01:23:36,100 --> 01:23:34,160
supposedly told both of them that she

1961
01:23:38,530 --> 01:23:36,110
was planning to reveal all the sort of

1962
01:23:41,170 --> 01:23:38,540
juicy things that Kennedy had told her

1963
01:23:43,930 --> 01:23:41,180
like plans to invade Cuba to assassinate

1964
01:23:46,330 --> 01:23:43,940
Castro the then-current relationship

1965
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:46,340
with the Soviets things like this and

1966
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:48,410
although she gets this sort of

1967
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:51,770
reputation of being like a dumb blonde

1968
01:23:55,780 --> 01:23:52,970
she had she was and she was very

1969
01:23:57,970 --> 01:23:55,790
well-read she had a deep passion for

1970
01:24:00,040 --> 01:23:57,980
poetry she was interested in world

1971
01:24:02,229 --> 01:24:00,050
politics and in 1955 she actually

1972
01:24:05,020 --> 01:24:02,239
applied for a visa to go and visit the

1973
01:24:06,130 --> 01:24:05,030
Soviet Union to see because she said she

1974
01:24:08,020 --> 01:24:06,140
wanted to see what he was really like

1975
01:24:10,870 --> 01:24:08,030
rather than be told what it was really

1976
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:10,880
like so the public persona was very

1977
01:24:14,290 --> 01:24:12,770
different to the private one even though

1978
01:24:16,090 --> 01:24:14,300
she was you know she had like a fragile

1979
01:24:19,510 --> 01:24:16,100
character and she did suffer from low

1980
01:24:21,370 --> 01:24:19,520
self-esteem so we've got this woman who

1981
01:24:23,350 --> 01:24:21,380
feels sort of badly done by the Kennedys

1982
01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:23,360
and she threatens to blow the whistle

1983
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:25,850
well the document is dated three days

1984
01:24:30,670 --> 01:24:28,730
before her death it's the implication is

1985
01:24:31,900 --> 01:24:30,680
from the wiretap conversation that

1986
01:24:33,910 --> 01:24:31,910
somebody took her out of circulation

1987
01:24:36,820 --> 01:24:33,920
because before she could blow the

1988
01:24:39,610 --> 01:24:36,830
whistle now we need a fact that she was

1989
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:39,620
a prestigious keeper of journals and

1990
01:24:43,810 --> 01:24:41,930
Diaries but she supposedly had this one

1991
01:24:46,330 --> 01:24:43,820
particular one that became known as the

1992
01:24:48,700 --> 01:24:46,340
red book where she recorded all the

1993
01:24:50,140 --> 01:24:48,710
stuff that the Kennedys told her now

1994
01:24:52,270 --> 01:24:50,150
when she died

1995
01:24:54,460 --> 01:24:52,280
always killed everyone determined she

1996
01:24:56,500 --> 01:24:54,470
was taken in for autopsy a number of

1997
01:24:59,410 --> 01:24:56,510
people come forward to confirm they saw

1998
01:25:01,630 --> 01:24:59,420
this red book brought in with her Barris

1999
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:01,640
belongings of hers but he's supposedly

2000
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:03,890
vanished from the coroner's office over

2001
01:25:08,200 --> 01:25:06,170
two or three days later what's happened

2002
01:25:11,470 --> 01:25:08,210
to it since you know we just don't know

2003
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:11,480
but the document talks in part about how

2004
01:25:14,049 --> 01:25:13,850
Rothberg and kill gala were discussing

2005
01:25:16,149 --> 01:25:14,059
this

2006
01:25:18,669 --> 01:25:16,159
one particular thing that Marilyn Monroe

2007
01:25:20,529 --> 01:25:18,679
had told both of them namely a visit by

2008
01:25:23,139 --> 01:25:20,539
the President to what's described as a

2009
01:25:25,509 --> 01:25:23,149
secret Air Force Base where he was shown

2010
01:25:29,020 --> 01:25:25,519
again quote a crashed spacecraft and

2011
01:25:31,569 --> 01:25:29,030
dead bodies and it's titled at the top

2012
01:25:34,329 --> 01:25:31,579
moon dust moon dust was a legitimate US

2013
01:25:36,189 --> 01:25:34,339
Air Force program but had a few UFO

2014
01:25:38,649 --> 01:25:36,199
overtones to it but was primarily

2015
01:25:40,929 --> 01:25:38,659
focused on recovering like crashed

2016
01:25:43,059 --> 01:25:40,939
Soviet space wreckage and you know

2017
01:25:45,699 --> 01:25:43,069
rocket boosters to be analyzed to see

2018
01:25:48,849 --> 01:25:45,709
how they compared to ours technology

2019
01:25:51,669 --> 01:25:48,859
wise I'm a typeface again is is

2020
01:25:53,799 --> 01:25:51,679
legitimate for that era and it does look

2021
01:25:56,169 --> 01:25:53,809
like whether it be heading the paperwork

2022
01:25:58,029 --> 01:25:56,179
is the same now again the problem is we

2023
01:26:00,369 --> 01:25:58,039
don't have an original document but can

2024
01:26:02,889 --> 01:26:00,379
be examined in an archive all we have is

2025
01:26:05,939 --> 01:26:02,899
like a first or second generation coffee

2026
01:26:09,189 --> 01:26:05,949
a photocopy but that's sort of the

2027
01:26:11,889 --> 01:26:09,199
summary of the Marilyn Monroe linked to

2028
01:26:14,259 --> 01:26:11,899
the the UFO angle and also to the

2029
01:26:16,839 --> 01:26:14,269
kennedy angle and the Kilgallen angle

2030
01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:16,849
which also as a Kennedy time as well why

2031
01:26:19,679 --> 01:26:18,530
the mention just one thing here we have

2032
01:26:23,049 --> 01:26:19,689
a lot of questions from our listeners

2033
01:26:25,119 --> 01:26:23,059
Nick we're on the subject of JFK and I

2034
01:26:27,399 --> 01:26:25,129
have a couple of questions here on the

2035
01:26:31,809 --> 01:26:27,409
question Bank at forum dr. Perik asked

2036
01:26:34,449 --> 01:26:31,819
calm a whole series of questions from

2037
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:34,459
storage who has been a poster at the

2038
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:37,010
forum for a couple of years and he heard

2039
01:26:41,619 --> 01:26:39,530
you're recording on the Brand X

2040
01:26:43,329 --> 01:26:41,629
paranormal radio show and he was

2041
01:26:46,299 --> 01:26:43,339
wondering about some of the facts that

2042
01:26:48,729 --> 01:26:46,309
you mentioned he points out that Maury

2043
01:26:50,979 --> 01:26:48,739
island is not in Tacoma it's off passion

2044
01:26:53,529 --> 01:26:50,989
Island and he he he starts picking apart

2045
01:26:56,199 --> 01:26:53,539
some of the minutiae of the things that

2046
01:26:59,020 --> 01:26:56,209
you said about the case but but one

2047
01:27:01,959 --> 01:26:59,030
thing that that really struck Hammond

2048
01:27:03,459 --> 01:27:01,969
themes is you know he says that Kent

2049
01:27:06,669 --> 01:27:03,469
Arnold was searching for that loss

2050
01:27:08,559 --> 01:27:06,679
Marines transport plane on the Tacoma

2051
01:27:11,109 --> 01:27:08,569
glacier on Mount Rainier when he saw the

2052
01:27:13,270 --> 01:27:11,119
the Crescent objects for the first time

2053
01:27:15,579 --> 01:27:13,280
you know that's something that you don't

2054
01:27:17,529 --> 01:27:15,589
care much about is is whatever happened

2055
01:27:20,679 --> 01:27:17,539
to that plane that prompted Rommel to be

2056
01:27:24,309 --> 01:27:20,689
up there looking on his way back on his

2057
01:27:27,939 --> 01:27:24,319
flight back to uh to the Puget Sound

2058
01:27:29,919 --> 01:27:27,949
area and storage points out that there

2059
01:27:31,540 --> 01:27:29,929
nobody's aboard the plane when when it

2060
01:27:33,339 --> 01:27:31,550
was eventually found there were no blood

2061
01:27:35,859 --> 01:27:33,349
or bones all the parachutes have been

2062
01:27:39,009 --> 01:27:35,869
left behind and he says it seems logical

2063
01:27:40,839 --> 01:27:39,019
to him to merge Arnold sightings with

2064
01:27:44,350 --> 01:27:40,849
Morrie Island because of spatial and

2065
01:27:47,680 --> 01:27:44,360
temporal proximity of these things into

2066
01:27:49,989 --> 01:27:47,690
a single series of events now I never

2067
01:27:52,810 --> 01:27:49,999
known that did you know that the that

2068
01:27:55,029 --> 01:27:52,820
the plane that had gone missing prior to

2069
01:27:56,589 --> 01:27:55,039
the Arnold sighting was found and there

2070
01:27:58,870 --> 01:27:56,599
was nobody on board the parachutes were

2071
01:28:01,149 --> 01:27:58,880
left behind did you know that no I

2072
01:28:02,739 --> 01:28:01,159
didn't know that I do know that you know

2073
01:28:04,779 --> 01:28:02,749
he was up in the reason he was in that

2074
01:28:07,330 --> 01:28:04,789
area was because he was looking for this

2075
01:28:08,739 --> 01:28:07,340
this crash plane but no I didn't know

2076
01:28:12,299 --> 01:28:08,749
anything about the way I decided that

2077
01:28:16,839 --> 01:28:12,309
now it also he points out that there's a

2078
01:28:20,379 --> 01:28:16,849
potential connection between a guy

2079
01:28:23,500 --> 01:28:20,389
Bannister who of course was you know an

2080
01:28:27,430 --> 01:28:23,510
ex-fbi guy who was tied with with Oswalt

2081
01:28:31,989 --> 01:28:27,440
tied into Oswald in New Orleans but he

2082
01:28:33,729 --> 01:28:31,999
mentions here that Jim Garrison somehow

2083
01:28:35,979 --> 01:28:33,739
has a connection with guy Bannister when

2084
01:28:39,459 --> 01:28:35,989
Bannister was working in the district

2085
01:28:41,410 --> 01:28:39,469
Northwest were you aware of that what

2086
01:28:43,810 --> 01:28:41,420
are the interesting things about the

2087
01:28:46,540 --> 01:28:43,820
whole Kennedy assassination and guy

2088
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:46,550
Bannister is that none other than Jim

2089
01:28:51,549 --> 01:28:49,130
Garrison himself actually knew Bannister

2090
01:28:54,129 --> 01:28:51,559
prior to the investigation of Kennedy's

2091
01:28:55,870 --> 01:28:54,139
death and went on record as saying how

2092
01:28:58,689 --> 01:28:55,880
he had lunch with him on many occasions

2093
01:29:02,199 --> 01:28:58,699
and they swap colorful stories way back

2094
01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:02,209
in the forties together all right yeah

2095
01:29:06,640 --> 01:29:04,130
that's that's news to me thank you

2096
01:29:09,189 --> 01:29:06,650
storage for pointing this out another

2097
01:29:12,399 --> 01:29:09,199
thing that he brings up here which I was

2098
01:29:16,569 --> 01:29:12,409
not aware of has to do with Harold Dahl

2099
01:29:19,870 --> 01:29:16,579
son who according to storage was more or

2100
01:29:22,149 --> 01:29:19,880
less abducted by fairies or ETS and woke

2101
01:29:24,660 --> 01:29:22,159
up from a trance to find himself washing

2102
01:29:26,799 --> 01:29:24,670
dish dishes in Wyoming or something

2103
01:29:30,100 --> 01:29:26,809
that's news to me have you ever heard

2104
01:29:31,540 --> 01:29:30,110
that yes I have I mean bear in mind when

2105
01:29:34,419 --> 01:29:31,550
I write the books for no page I'm

2106
01:29:36,850 --> 01:29:34,429
actually limited contractually to 65,000

2107
01:29:38,259 --> 01:29:36,860
words I cannot exceed that so one of the

2108
01:29:41,409 --> 01:29:38,269
challenges is when you write in the book

2109
01:29:44,350 --> 01:29:41,419
you know what you include what you don't

2110
01:29:46,359 --> 01:29:44,360
very yeah as the thrust of the book was

2111
01:29:47,949 --> 01:29:46,369
the dance you know there was I could

2112
01:29:49,899 --> 01:29:47,959
have you know made it longer but

2113
01:29:51,489 --> 01:29:49,909
unfortunate wasn't able to but yeah I

2114
01:29:55,060 --> 01:29:51,499
mean there are other weird aspects to it

2115
01:29:56,709 --> 01:29:55,070
this story about doll son yeah I mean

2116
01:29:59,830 --> 01:29:56,719
that's been in circulation for a while

2117
01:30:01,779 --> 01:29:59,840
about how he saw had this all thought of

2118
01:30:03,129 --> 01:30:01,789
missing time experience you know just

2119
01:30:05,199 --> 01:30:03,139
didn't know what had happened to him

2120
01:30:07,239 --> 01:30:05,209
just kind of suddenly woke up in a daze

2121
01:30:09,129 --> 01:30:07,249
I don't know where you know let's pursue

2122
01:30:11,889 --> 01:30:09,139
that further in our next segment we have

2123
01:30:13,359 --> 01:30:11,899
Nick Redfern joining us now we all know

2124
01:30:15,790 --> 01:30:13,369
about the fact that publishers sometimes

2125
01:30:17,830 --> 01:30:15,800
want to save a few bucks and so they

2126
01:30:19,839 --> 01:30:17,840
will restrict the number of words in a

2127
01:30:20,799 --> 01:30:19,849
book so they can keep the price at a

2128
01:30:23,409 --> 01:30:20,809
certain level

2129
01:30:25,060 --> 01:30:23,419
let's understandable I guess and we're

2130
01:30:28,060 --> 01:30:25,070
gonna have to cut this short too because

2131
01:30:30,250 --> 01:30:28,070
we can't get in everything in this full

2132
01:30:37,419 --> 01:30:30,260
episode but we'll try with gene and

2133
01:30:39,429 --> 01:30:37,429
Chris you're in because not just an

2134
01:30:42,639 --> 01:30:39,439
alternative to the mainstream media

2135
01:30:43,540 --> 01:30:42,649
we're the premier independent talk radio

2136
01:30:47,859 --> 01:30:43,550
network

2137
01:30:49,299 --> 01:30:47,869
we are G C n first came attack of the

2138
01:30:51,339 --> 01:30:49,309
rock codes and it was a critically

2139
01:30:53,350 --> 01:30:51,349
acclaimed success and now there's the

2140
01:30:55,479 --> 01:30:53,360
coming of the protectors a former

2141
01:30:57,879 --> 01:30:55,489
military intelligence man is contacted

2142
01:31:00,279 --> 01:30:57,889
by a space woman in a dream a dream that

2143
01:31:01,899 --> 01:31:00,289
turns out to be a nightmare because evil

2144
01:31:03,459 --> 01:31:01,909
forces on our distant planet are

2145
01:31:05,799 --> 01:31:03,469
planning to conquer the earth

2146
01:31:08,529 --> 01:31:05,809
this is gripping science fiction of the

2147
01:31:10,479 --> 01:31:08,539
classic kind attack of the rock ODEs and

2148
01:31:13,270 --> 01:31:10,489
the coming of the protectors find out

2149
01:31:17,020 --> 01:31:13,280
more and Rocco is calm that's Rocco it's

2150
01:31:18,729 --> 01:31:17,030
ROC KO ideas calm see here's what

2151
01:31:22,149 --> 01:31:18,739
happened I was placing an order online

2152
01:31:24,009 --> 01:31:22,159
the site went down it took hours before

2153
01:31:25,810 --> 01:31:24,019
it returned but I'd already placed the

2154
01:31:28,270 --> 01:31:25,820
order with another company if your site

2155
01:31:29,830 --> 01:31:28,280
goes down you could lose business and if

2156
01:31:32,169 --> 01:31:29,840
you have a business or personal site

2157
01:31:35,709 --> 01:31:32,179
you'll want to know it's easy to run and

2158
01:31:38,080 --> 01:31:35,719
it will stay online at iWeb your site is

2159
01:31:40,870 --> 01:31:38,090
hosted on one of the most reliable

2160
01:31:44,020 --> 01:31:40,880
networks in the world talk to a sales

2161
01:31:46,600 --> 01:31:44,030
rep at iWeb comm use the promo code tech

2162
01:31:48,939 --> 01:31:46,610
night-owl for a special discount you are

2163
01:31:51,069 --> 01:31:48,949
now in the crosshairs the NSA and the

2164
01:31:54,009 --> 01:31:51,079
FBI are treating you like a criminal and

2165
01:31:54,459 --> 01:31:54,019
monitoring your every move Ron Paul said

2166
01:31:57,010 --> 01:31:54,469
recent

2167
01:31:58,300 --> 01:31:57,020
the evidence of the totalitarian nature

2168
01:32:00,850 --> 01:31:58,310
of this government is on display

2169
01:32:03,220 --> 01:32:00,860
undeniably every day what's taking place

2170
01:32:05,439 --> 01:32:03,230
right now is a coup and the destruction

2171
01:32:07,689 --> 01:32:05,449
of the Constitution but a friend and

2172
01:32:09,550 --> 01:32:07,699
patriot has discovered a loophole find

2173
01:32:12,880 --> 01:32:09,560
out about the NSA loophole before they

2174
01:32:16,060 --> 01:32:12,890
shut it down at privacy lockdown dot-com

2175
01:32:17,890 --> 01:32:16,070
that's privacy lockdown dot-com how many

2176
01:32:19,780 --> 01:32:17,900
good people procrastinate when was the

2177
01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:19,790
last time you updated your last will and

2178
01:32:22,990 --> 01:32:21,290
testament your living will and your

2179
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:23,000
healthcare power of attorney if you

2180
01:32:26,290 --> 01:32:24,770
could get these documents included with

2181
01:32:28,180 --> 01:32:26,300
your Legal Shield membership for no

2182
01:32:29,530 --> 01:32:28,190
additional charge wouldn't it just make

2183
01:32:31,030 --> 01:32:29,540
sense to have the peace of mind of

2184
01:32:33,340 --> 01:32:31,040
owning a Legal Shield membership

2185
01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:33,350
worrying less and live more with LS

2186
01:32:38,320 --> 01:32:35,690
protection calm that's LS protection

2187
01:32:40,750 --> 01:32:38,330
calm or call eight five five three four

2188
01:32:43,209 --> 01:32:40,760
zero save that's eight five five three

2189
01:32:55,050 --> 01:32:43,219
four zero seven two eight three results

2190
01:33:00,640 --> 01:32:57,939
not just big it's the freeze-dry guys

2191
01:33:02,860 --> 01:33:00,650
giant factory authorized sale this month

2192
01:33:05,140 --> 01:33:02,870
save thirty to forty five percent off on

2193
01:33:07,180 --> 01:33:05,150
number 10 cans of high-quality mountain

2194
01:33:09,729 --> 01:33:07,190
house freeze-dried foods from the freeze

2195
01:33:11,950 --> 01:33:09,739
dry guy factory fresh stock just arrived

2196
01:33:14,080 --> 01:33:11,960
so now is the time to stock up with a

2197
01:33:16,209 --> 01:33:14,090
finest best tasting longest proven

2198
01:33:18,430 --> 01:33:16,219
shelf-life foods in the industry and

2199
01:33:20,500 --> 01:33:18,440
giant savings of thirty to forty five

2200
01:33:22,180 --> 01:33:20,510
percent off but hurry supplies are

2201
01:33:24,430 --> 01:33:22,190
limited to only the stock we have on

2202
01:33:26,740 --> 01:33:24,440
hand call eight six six four oh four

2203
01:33:28,840 --> 01:33:26,750
three six six three free shipping to the

2204
01:33:29,709 --> 01:33:28,850
lower 48 states click freeze dry

2205
01:33:33,070 --> 01:33:29,719
guide.com

2206
01:33:35,620 --> 01:33:33,080
or call 866 four oh four three six six

2207
01:33:37,870 --> 01:33:35,630
three that's freeze dry guy.com

2208
01:33:40,150 --> 01:33:37,880
hurry the giant factory authorized

2209
01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:40,160
mountain house sale is going on now only

2210
01:33:44,110 --> 01:33:42,410
from the freeze dry guy the finest

2211
01:33:47,220 --> 01:33:44,120
freeze-dried and dehydrated foods

2212
01:33:51,130 --> 01:33:47,230
available anywhere for long term storage

2213
01:33:54,250 --> 01:33:51,140
i'm kay swirling from ke SEO radio in

2214
01:33:57,550 --> 01:33:54,260
santa cruz I'm 93 years old and I'm a

2215
01:34:00,010 --> 01:33:57,560
big fan of Alex Jones because he has the

2216
01:34:01,570 --> 01:34:00,020
courage to speak his mind more than just

2217
01:34:04,900 --> 01:34:01,580
about anyone I know

2218
01:34:08,170 --> 01:34:04,910
Alex is just as bothered as I am about

2219
01:34:10,690 --> 01:34:08,180
all the advertising you hear for talks

2220
01:34:14,020 --> 01:34:10,700
prescription drugs that make you sicker

2221
01:34:17,200 --> 01:34:14,030
not healthy I prefer to give my body all

2222
01:34:20,830 --> 01:34:17,210
90 essential nutrients it needs for life

2223
01:34:23,650 --> 01:34:20,840
to prevent disease not compounded my

2224
01:34:27,370 --> 01:34:23,660
favorite complete supplement is beyond

2225
01:34:30,670 --> 01:34:27,380
tangy tangerine from youngevity which I

2226
01:34:31,390 --> 01:34:30,680
take every day along with EF a-plus and

2227
01:34:35,170 --> 01:34:31,400
beyond

2228
01:34:38,770 --> 01:34:35,180
osteo FX I recommend you go online to

2229
01:34:41,080 --> 01:34:38,780
Infowars team.com to purchase these

2230
01:34:43,900 --> 01:34:41,090
products and make them part of your

2231
01:34:52,510 --> 01:34:43,910
daily regimen to get healthy and live

2232
01:34:56,410 --> 01:34:52,520
longer info wars team comm I hope you're

2233
01:34:58,690 --> 01:34:56,420
listening to the parrot cause I'm the

2234
01:35:01,330 --> 01:34:58,700
parrot cast with Gene and Chris Nick

2235
01:35:03,790 --> 01:35:01,340
Redfern joining us regarding close

2236
01:35:05,230 --> 01:35:03,800
encounters of the fatal kind and you're

2237
01:35:07,150 --> 01:35:05,240
referring there to the fact that of

2238
01:35:08,710 --> 01:35:07,160
course because of the restrictions and

2239
01:35:11,260 --> 01:35:08,720
the size of the book we understand why

2240
01:35:13,600 --> 01:35:11,270
publishers do that some stuff had to be

2241
01:35:15,220 --> 01:35:13,610
left on the cutting room floor maybe

2242
01:35:17,620 --> 01:35:15,230
before Chris goes on with questions let

2243
01:35:19,990 --> 01:35:17,630
me ask you a further issue we can move

2244
01:35:21,640 --> 01:35:20,000
away from Rory Island and the Kennedy

2245
01:35:23,800 --> 01:35:21,650
assassination because we have so many

2246
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:23,810
things to talk about and that is is

2247
01:35:27,490 --> 01:35:25,970
there anything else that was left on the

2248
01:35:29,710 --> 01:35:27,500
cutting-room floor that you would have

2249
01:35:32,710 --> 01:35:29,720
loved to have talked about but you just

2250
01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:32,720
ran out of space well only in the sense

2251
01:35:36,070 --> 01:35:34,130
it's sort of further corroborated

2252
01:35:38,110 --> 01:35:36,080
information and background data on

2253
01:35:41,620 --> 01:35:38,120
certain people and players but what I

2254
01:35:45,160 --> 01:35:41,630
tried to do I hope I did a cheap was was

2255
01:35:47,200 --> 01:35:45,170
to accurately summarize all the sort of

2256
01:35:51,160 --> 01:35:47,210
relevant and important points of each

2257
01:35:52,930 --> 01:35:51,170
case and make it a fully readable story

2258
01:35:54,850 --> 01:35:52,940
that he didn't he didn't make it

2259
01:35:56,470 --> 01:35:54,860
unreadable by leaving this as or that

2260
01:35:59,110 --> 01:35:56,480
out you know it's I'm in love with the

2261
01:36:01,360 --> 01:35:59,120
Forrestal story I mean paint love

2262
01:36:04,630 --> 01:36:01,370
written sort of twenty thirty forty paid

2263
01:36:07,780 --> 01:36:04,640
papers on the assassination or death

2264
01:36:09,850 --> 01:36:07,790
everyone to term it but you know you can

2265
01:36:12,220 --> 01:36:09,860
still tell the story and seven or eight

2266
01:36:14,380 --> 01:36:12,230
so but there's nothing sort of major

2267
01:36:17,650 --> 01:36:14,390
that I left out it was just sort of

2268
01:36:19,600 --> 01:36:17,660
smaller points but you know people

2269
01:36:21,280 --> 01:36:19,610
wonder investigating further might have

2270
01:36:22,250 --> 01:36:21,290
wondered why wasn't this supporting why

2271
01:36:23,810 --> 01:36:22,260
wasn't that well

2272
01:36:25,760 --> 01:36:23,820
you know there's only so much you can

2273
01:36:29,540 --> 01:36:25,770
put in when you're doing 20-something

2274
01:36:30,140 --> 01:36:29,550
chapters in a you know 65,000 word book

2275
01:36:34,120 --> 01:36:30,150
or whatever

2276
01:36:38,960 --> 01:36:34,130
I'm jealous man I wish I could write a

2277
01:36:40,370 --> 01:36:38,970
65,000 word book well I I'm happy to do

2278
01:36:42,230 --> 01:36:40,380
a book of anyway through my next book

2279
01:36:44,630 --> 01:36:42,240
I've got a book coming out with visible

2280
01:36:46,160 --> 01:36:44,640
ink press in September is called a

2281
01:36:47,660 --> 01:36:46,170
zombie book it's all like an A to Z of

2282
01:36:49,670 --> 01:36:47,670
every pictures every zombies that one's

2283
01:36:53,540 --> 01:36:49,680
a hundred and fifty thousand words no

2284
01:36:55,760 --> 01:36:53,550
cool you know I'm happy to write a long

2285
01:36:56,930 --> 01:36:55,770
book it's just that some companies put a

2286
01:36:59,240 --> 01:36:56,940
word count on it

2287
01:37:01,880 --> 01:36:59,250
other ones just they do what you wants

2288
01:37:04,130 --> 01:37:01,890
you know so the challenges is to make it

2289
01:37:06,830 --> 01:37:04,140
applicable to the guidelines of the

2290
01:37:09,470 --> 01:37:06,840
relevant company yeah and some subjects

2291
01:37:11,900 --> 01:37:09,480
do require quite a bit more in-depth

2292
01:37:14,030 --> 01:37:11,910
in-depth research and and and more

2293
01:37:16,010 --> 01:37:14,040
information obviously well I mean a

2294
01:37:17,660 --> 01:37:16,020
classic example Ken Thomas wrote an

2295
01:37:19,730 --> 01:37:17,670
entire book on Laurie Island which is

2296
01:37:22,970 --> 01:37:19,740
like 300 unless like the definitive

2297
01:37:24,920 --> 01:37:22,980
study there's like 300 pages yeah on the

2298
01:37:28,010 --> 01:37:24,930
case it's I'm just on that one case so

2299
01:37:29,900 --> 01:37:28,020
that's how much material potentially you

2300
01:37:31,580 --> 01:37:29,910
could include if you wanted to it's I

2301
01:37:33,410 --> 01:37:31,590
know no new page wouldn't allow me to

2302
01:37:35,870 --> 01:37:33,420
write a 300 page chat system

2303
01:37:38,600 --> 01:37:35,880
well well since we're still kind of back

2304
01:37:41,090 --> 01:37:38,610
in the formative years of the modern era

2305
01:37:43,310 --> 01:37:41,100
of ufology I have another question from

2306
01:37:46,520 --> 01:37:43,320
storage here and he's wondering about

2307
01:37:48,710 --> 01:37:46,530
grace more than the Crown Prince the

2308
01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:48,720
Crown Prince of Norway assassinated in

2309
01:38:01,430 --> 01:37:52,050
1947 by ET I have no idea what he's

2310
01:38:02,660 --> 01:38:01,440
talking about do you know okay well you

2311
01:38:04,790 --> 01:38:02,670
know what let me just ask him one thing

2312
01:38:06,830 --> 01:38:04,800
here and then we'll go on just for

2313
01:38:08,690 --> 01:38:06,840
listeners who didn't pay attention and

2314
01:38:11,090 --> 01:38:08,700
we mentioned it in this segment before

2315
01:38:14,450 --> 01:38:11,100
this one and that is among the other

2316
01:38:15,890 --> 01:38:14,460
deaths related to UFOs our first MK

2317
01:38:17,270 --> 01:38:15,900
Jessup and I mentioned the fact of

2318
01:38:19,160 --> 01:38:17,280
course that he wrote the book case for

2319
01:38:20,990 --> 01:38:19,170
the UFO the expanding case for the UFO

2320
01:38:22,880 --> 01:38:21,000
and we all know about the Philadelphia

2321
01:38:25,220 --> 01:38:22,890
Experiment because Charles Berlitz wrote

2322
01:38:27,080 --> 01:38:25,230
a best-selling book on it using some

2323
01:38:28,810 --> 01:38:27,090
material that I provided him by the way

2324
01:38:31,030 --> 01:38:28,820
but

2325
01:38:35,200 --> 01:38:31,040
new Berlitz in those days of late 70s

2326
01:38:39,310 --> 01:38:35,210
but anyway MK Jessup writes about UFOs

2327
01:38:42,010 --> 01:38:39,320
and then a few years later people read

2328
01:38:45,700 --> 01:38:42,020
that he offed himself in Dade County in

2329
01:38:47,560 --> 01:38:45,710
Florida in a park he's dies from carbon

2330
01:38:49,600 --> 01:38:47,570
monoxide poisoning what happened to

2331
01:38:51,250 --> 01:38:49,610
Jessup is this something that his life

2332
01:38:53,169 --> 01:38:51,260
had turned sour or what

2333
01:38:55,120 --> 01:38:53,179
well again you can't kind of look at it

2334
01:38:57,220 --> 01:38:55,130
two ways you know you know I present all

2335
01:38:59,080 --> 01:38:57,230
the information so people can to make

2336
01:39:00,580 --> 01:38:59,090
their own minds up because you know if

2337
01:39:02,680 --> 01:39:00,590
we knew the answer for sure there'll be

2338
01:39:05,229 --> 01:39:02,690
no need for me to write about it but

2339
01:39:08,500 --> 01:39:05,239
Jessup was someone who developed an

2340
01:39:10,660 --> 01:39:08,510
interest in the UFO subject in the late

2341
01:39:13,180 --> 01:39:10,670
forties early 50s and began to dig into

2342
01:39:15,609 --> 01:39:13,190
it further and it was actually sort of a

2343
01:39:17,830 --> 01:39:15,619
really early pioneer in the whole

2344
01:39:20,020 --> 01:39:17,840
ancient astronauts world for example

2345
01:39:22,689 --> 01:39:20,030
even in the early fifties he was

2346
01:39:24,700 --> 01:39:22,699
traveling to Mexico and South America to

2347
01:39:26,800 --> 01:39:24,710
examine you know the ancient Mayan ruins

2348
01:39:28,959 --> 01:39:26,810
and things like that he came to believe

2349
01:39:31,689 --> 01:39:28,969
even back then as he's my own personal

2350
01:39:33,459 --> 01:39:31,699
notes show but he came to believe that

2351
01:39:35,620 --> 01:39:33,469
these ancient structures were built by

2352
01:39:38,200 --> 01:39:35,630
what in simple terms we would call

2353
01:39:40,629 --> 01:39:38,210
levitation or anti-gravity now whether

2354
01:39:42,939 --> 01:39:40,639
or not that's true he's kind of less

2355
01:39:44,620 --> 01:39:42,949
relevant than the fact that Jesse was

2356
01:39:46,959 --> 01:39:44,630
talking all about this at the dawning of

2357
01:39:50,080 --> 01:39:46,969
the 50s in his private papers long

2358
01:39:52,089 --> 01:39:50,090
before people like Erich von Daniken and

2359
01:39:55,359 --> 01:39:52,099
zecharia sitchin were we're even on this

2360
01:39:57,040 --> 01:39:55,369
you know remotely on the scene now he

2361
01:39:58,720 --> 01:39:57,050
wrote a number of books in the 50s

2362
01:40:01,569 --> 01:39:58,730
certainly the most famous one being the

2363
01:40:04,270 --> 01:40:01,579
case for the UFO well what happened was

2364
01:40:06,760 --> 01:40:04,280
that when the book came out in 55 you

2365
01:40:09,370 --> 01:40:06,770
know it sort of got interesting coverage

2366
01:40:12,010 --> 01:40:09,380
not too long afterwards a copy of the

2367
01:40:16,390 --> 01:40:12,020
book was mailed anonymously to an office

2368
01:40:18,970 --> 01:40:16,400
at the US Navy and the copying question

2369
01:40:22,780 --> 01:40:18,980
had all these weird annotations inside

2370
01:40:24,939 --> 01:40:22,790
it talking about the copper making

2371
01:40:27,870 --> 01:40:24,949
comments and underlined in portions of

2372
01:40:30,910 --> 01:40:27,880
Jessup's work into this issue of

2373
01:40:34,569 --> 01:40:30,920
anti-gravity and levitation in the

2374
01:40:36,100 --> 01:40:34,579
distant past and also notes and comments

2375
01:40:38,260 --> 01:40:36,110
about the so-called Philadelphia

2376
01:40:41,109 --> 01:40:38,270
Experiment this highly controversial

2377
01:40:42,400 --> 01:40:41,119
story of a supposed project that

2378
01:40:44,680 --> 01:40:42,410
rendered a

2379
01:40:47,830 --> 01:40:44,690
a US Navy ship invisible in the

2380
01:40:50,200 --> 01:40:47,840
Philadelphia Naval Yard in 43 well

2381
01:40:52,390 --> 01:40:50,210
instead of just sort of outright ignore

2382
01:40:54,100 --> 01:40:52,400
in this book and you know just putting

2383
01:40:56,560 --> 01:40:54,110
it in the garbage or whatever and and

2384
01:40:59,380 --> 01:40:56,570
ignoring all these weird annotations the

2385
01:41:00,700 --> 01:40:59,390
Navy actually called up Jessup and said

2386
01:41:02,410 --> 01:41:00,710
look we've got this copy of your book

2387
01:41:04,510 --> 01:41:02,420
Melvin Animus leaked to us it's got all

2388
01:41:06,550 --> 01:41:04,520
these weird comments inside about a

2389
01:41:09,690 --> 01:41:06,560
secret Navy project we like to speak to

2390
01:41:13,480 --> 01:41:09,700
you about it and Jessup was kind of

2391
01:41:14,980 --> 01:41:13,490
excited but also concerned you know he

2392
01:41:17,320 --> 01:41:14,990
was gone he come from somebody writing

2393
01:41:19,720 --> 01:41:17,330
books about UFOs to somebody in the Navy

2394
01:41:21,280 --> 01:41:19,730
now wanted him to fly out to DC and

2395
01:41:22,990 --> 01:41:21,290
speak with him and that's what he did

2396
01:41:25,630 --> 01:41:23,000
they paid for their flights they paid

2397
01:41:27,910 --> 01:41:25,640
his hotel room and meals flew him out he

2398
01:41:28,990 --> 01:41:27,920
thought with hindsight from his words it

2399
01:41:31,630 --> 01:41:29,000
sounds like he thought there was gonna

2400
01:41:33,270 --> 01:41:31,640
realize a good cop bad cop grilling that

2401
01:41:35,860 --> 01:41:33,280
she wasn't it was sort of a quiet

2402
01:41:38,320 --> 01:41:35,870
relaxed conversation not even an

2403
01:41:40,270 --> 01:41:38,330
interview or such and when they showed

2404
01:41:42,340 --> 01:41:40,280
him the copy of the book he instant

2405
01:41:43,780 --> 01:41:42,350
Jessop instantly realized that he

2406
01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:43,790
recognized the writing it was from this

2407
01:41:47,320 --> 01:41:46,010
guy Carlos lnd had been sending him all

2408
01:41:48,730 --> 01:41:47,330
these rambling letters about the

2409
01:41:51,640 --> 01:41:48,740
Philadelphia Experiment

2410
01:41:53,770 --> 01:41:51,650
so Jessup explained all this to the Navy

2411
01:41:55,450 --> 01:41:53,780
guys they were satisfied but they're

2412
01:41:58,390 --> 01:41:55,460
actually more than satisfied because

2413
01:42:01,990 --> 01:41:58,400
they contracted the viral corporation in

2414
01:42:04,030 --> 01:42:02,000
Garland Texas to print off for them 25

2415
01:42:06,190 --> 01:42:04,040
copies objectives book which is

2416
01:42:08,050 --> 01:42:06,200
circulated roughly 20 of them was

2417
01:42:10,780 --> 01:42:08,060
circulated to various other military

2418
01:42:12,430 --> 01:42:10,790
departments and the rest were given two

2419
01:42:15,270 --> 01:42:12,440
or four of them were given suggestive

2420
01:42:18,970 --> 01:42:15,280
and one was offered to lndia himself so

2421
01:42:21,310 --> 01:42:18,980
that was the story behind how he kind of

2422
01:42:23,590 --> 01:42:21,320
attracted official attention now in the

2423
01:42:25,990 --> 01:42:23,600
wake of this visit to the navy a few

2424
01:42:27,220 --> 01:42:26,000
weird things started to happen and I

2425
01:42:29,140 --> 01:42:27,230
mentioned this in the book and a couple

2426
01:42:30,760 --> 01:42:29,150
of people asked me where I got this

2427
01:42:32,980 --> 01:42:30,770
information from was actually from

2428
01:42:35,740 --> 01:42:32,990
personal notes of Jessup's that were

2429
01:42:38,170 --> 01:42:35,750
shared with me by an author who's

2430
01:42:41,070 --> 01:42:38,180
actually in the process now of writing a

2431
01:42:44,050 --> 01:42:41,080
book on Jessup's death and his life and

2432
01:42:46,360 --> 01:42:44,060
they talked about the files his private

2433
01:42:48,430 --> 01:42:46,370
notes I should say talk about how he

2434
01:42:49,690 --> 01:42:48,440
started to get hang-up phone calls in

2435
01:42:51,550 --> 01:42:49,700
the middle of the night where the phone

2436
01:42:52,810 --> 01:42:51,560
would ring and then he would stop and

2437
01:42:54,730 --> 01:42:52,820
then he would start again like an hour

2438
01:42:56,230 --> 01:42:54,740
later and go on every night

2439
01:42:59,380 --> 01:42:56,240
to the point where he's

2440
01:43:01,570 --> 01:42:59,390
we began to be destabilized he got weird

2441
01:43:03,640 --> 01:43:01,580
phone calls we've hearing stranger

2442
01:43:06,490 --> 01:43:03,650
screeching and metallic noises down the

2443
01:43:08,320 --> 01:43:06,500
line and strange foreign languages as if

2444
01:43:11,530 --> 01:43:08,330
they were speeded up down the phone line

2445
01:43:14,410 --> 01:43:11,540
some of his mail arrived clearly torn

2446
01:43:15,940 --> 01:43:14,420
open and then resealed with tape done in

2447
01:43:18,220 --> 01:43:15,950
a fashion to make it clear to him that

2448
01:43:20,380 --> 01:43:18,230
somebody was in the mail clearly some

2449
01:43:22,270 --> 01:43:20,390
sort of intimidation this sort of got

2450
01:43:24,160 --> 01:43:22,280
worse and worse to the point where at

2451
01:43:26,680 --> 01:43:24,170
one point long before he was found dead

2452
01:43:29,020 --> 01:43:26,690
in early 59 he had this strange car

2453
01:43:30,850 --> 01:43:29,030
accidents where he couldn't explain how

2454
01:43:32,980 --> 01:43:30,860
his car had gone off the road and

2455
01:43:35,440 --> 01:43:32,990
actually almost killed him he was very

2456
01:43:37,540 --> 01:43:35,450
quite severely injured and took quite a

2457
01:43:40,960 --> 01:43:37,550
long time to recover properly but

2458
01:43:43,360 --> 01:43:40,970
everything came to a head in 1959 when

2459
01:43:45,220 --> 01:43:43,370
he was found dead he said at the

2460
01:43:47,950 --> 01:43:45,230
beginning of this section in his car we

2461
01:43:51,490 --> 01:43:47,960
engine running and a house pipe going

2462
01:43:54,070 --> 01:43:51,500
from the exhaust to the window now

2463
01:43:56,320 --> 01:43:54,080
what's kind of intriguing on the issue

2464
01:43:58,300 --> 01:43:56,330
of whether it was suicide or murder is

2465
01:44:00,520 --> 01:43:58,310
the fact that just the night before he'd

2466
01:44:03,310 --> 01:44:00,530
found a close friend and colleague dr.

2467
01:44:05,560 --> 01:44:03,320
Manson Valentine and told that one sign

2468
01:44:07,210 --> 01:44:05,570
that he'd made a major discovery and

2469
01:44:09,040 --> 01:44:07,220
wanted to meet with Valentine the

2470
01:44:11,140 --> 01:44:09,050
following day it didn't really sound

2471
01:44:13,510 --> 01:44:11,150
like the words of somebody it was about

2472
01:44:15,250 --> 01:44:13,520
to go and kill himself in fact the exact

2473
01:44:17,620 --> 01:44:15,260
opposite but nevertheless that was the

2474
01:44:20,140 --> 01:44:17,630
situation he was found dead the next and

2475
01:44:22,450 --> 01:44:20,150
of course today questions are asked as

2476
01:44:25,120 --> 01:44:22,460
to whether it was suicide whether the

2477
01:44:26,680 --> 01:44:25,130
intimidation pushed him over the edge so

2478
01:44:29,650 --> 01:44:26,690
in other words he was suicide but he was

2479
01:44:32,020 --> 01:44:29,660
pushed into it or was it like a staged

2480
01:44:34,960 --> 01:44:32,030
event made to look like a suicide

2481
01:44:37,720 --> 01:44:34,970
this is a complicated story once that

2482
01:44:39,880 --> 01:44:37,730
author comes out with that book can you

2483
01:44:41,920 --> 01:44:39,890
tell us his name no I can't

2484
01:44:44,850 --> 01:44:41,930
I was actually legally allowed but with

2485
01:44:47,110 --> 01:44:44,860
a contract to make those comments but

2486
01:44:48,640 --> 01:44:47,120
legally and contractually which I

2487
01:44:50,050 --> 01:44:48,650
actually signed Tom mentioned the name

2488
01:44:51,970 --> 01:44:50,060
of the book but I can tell you it's

2489
01:44:54,850 --> 01:44:51,980
coming out next year and alb it's

2490
01:44:57,130 --> 01:44:54,860
basically a biography of Jessup which

2491
01:44:59,560 --> 01:44:57,140
contains all of access to not just his

2492
01:45:02,980 --> 01:44:59,570
books obviously in articles but a lot of

2493
01:45:05,200 --> 01:45:02,990
his original notes which were found in

2494
01:45:07,870 --> 01:45:05,210
the in the archives of another

2495
01:45:09,190 --> 01:45:07,880
researcher of that period I know it also

2496
01:45:09,939 --> 01:45:09,200
has a little bit counts but the book is

2497
01:45:11,830 --> 01:45:09,949
coming out next

2498
01:45:14,379 --> 01:45:11,840
here and it should be like a definitive

2499
01:45:16,689 --> 01:45:14,389
study of of Jessa's life and what was

2500
01:45:18,759 --> 01:45:16,699
going on behind the scenes we'll cover

2501
01:45:21,339 --> 01:45:18,769
that then but now we have to break with

2502
01:45:26,160 --> 01:45:21,349
Jean and Chris and Nick Redfern you're

2503
01:45:31,689 --> 01:45:29,500
unseen now calm proud sponsor of GCS

2504
01:45:35,049 --> 01:45:31,699
unseen now some paralleled encryption

2505
01:45:38,350 --> 01:45:35,059
tools keep your communication secure G C

2506
01:45:40,270 --> 01:45:38,360
n Henry Ford once said a man who stops

2507
01:45:42,430 --> 01:45:40,280
advertising save money is like a man who

2508
01:45:44,589 --> 01:45:42,440
stops a clock save time Alex Castle here

2509
01:45:46,629 --> 01:45:44,599
the National Account Executive at GCN I

2510
01:45:48,069 --> 01:45:46,639
have the ability to customize a national

2511
01:45:50,199 --> 01:45:48,079
radio campaign based on your budget

2512
01:45:51,790 --> 01:45:50,209
while targeting your demographic contact

2513
01:45:53,680 --> 01:45:51,800
me to find out how national radio can

2514
01:45:55,719 --> 01:45:53,690
help your business be more profitable at

2515
01:45:58,239 --> 01:45:55,729
eight seven seven nine nine six four

2516
01:46:00,399 --> 01:45:58,249
three two seven extension 177 that's

2517
01:46:03,100 --> 01:46:00,409
eight seventy seven nine nine six four

2518
01:46:04,989 --> 01:46:03,110
three two seven extension 177 and help

2519
01:46:07,359 --> 01:46:04,999
me help you bring your business to the

2520
01:46:09,459 --> 01:46:07,369
next level we the people grow cotton

2521
01:46:11,049 --> 01:46:09,469
wheat fabric engraving can bed strips

2522
01:46:12,850 --> 01:46:11,059
and fibers to protect from counterfeit

2523
01:46:13,989 --> 01:46:12,860
and carding to a private bank having a

2524
01:46:15,729 --> 01:46:13,999
led back at interest

2525
01:46:17,560 --> 01:46:15,739
forcing taxes to service debt this

2526
01:46:19,029 --> 01:46:17,570
capitalism or was Jefferson correct when

2527
01:46:20,649 --> 01:46:19,039
stating a central bank issuing the

2528
01:46:21,790 --> 01:46:20,659
public currency is a greater menace to

2529
01:46:23,529 --> 01:46:21,800
the liberties of the people than a

2530
01:46:24,969 --> 01:46:23,539
standing army hi Ted Anderson I'm

2531
01:46:26,799 --> 01:46:24,979
placing a free silver dollar in a book

2532
01:46:30,310 --> 01:46:26,809
that explains our monetary system call

2533
01:46:33,520 --> 01:46:30,320
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

2534
01:46:39,939 --> 01:46:33,530
to understand the system call 866 to 237

2535
01:46:42,219 --> 01:46:39,949
that's 800 686 to 237 the human body is

2536
01:46:44,169 --> 01:46:42,229
extraordinary despite all the stresses

2537
01:46:45,910 --> 01:46:44,179
we inflict upon it it still works hard

2538
01:46:48,009 --> 01:46:45,920
to stay in balance thousands upon

2539
01:46:49,779 --> 01:46:48,019
thousands of people rely upon heart and

2540
01:46:52,569 --> 01:46:49,789
body extract to help their body stay

2541
01:46:54,489 --> 01:46:52,579
balanced this excellent 100% natural

2542
01:46:56,379 --> 01:46:54,499
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2543
01:46:58,660 --> 01:46:56,389
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2544
01:47:01,359 --> 01:46:58,670
promotes good circulation balances

2545
01:47:03,520 --> 01:47:01,369
cholesterol and more HP extract paired

2546
01:47:05,410 --> 01:47:03,530
with healthy lifestyle choices like good

2547
01:47:07,689 --> 01:47:05,420
nutrition and exercise can give you a

2548
01:47:10,029 --> 01:47:07,699
life free of pain sickness and fear

2549
01:47:12,050 --> 01:47:10,039
recapture your youthful vitality and

2550
01:47:14,660 --> 01:47:12,060
experience your body healing

2551
01:47:16,430 --> 01:47:14,670
with the aid of HP extract is extremely

2552
01:47:19,430 --> 01:47:16,440
effective and it starts working in just

2553
01:47:21,500 --> 01:47:19,440
days visit HP extract calm to learn more

2554
01:47:23,450 --> 01:47:21,510
and to reach scores of testimonials from

2555
01:47:25,430 --> 01:47:23,460
satisfied customers and we've never

2556
01:47:27,440 --> 01:47:25,440
increased our price in over ten years

2557
01:47:29,540 --> 01:47:27,450
that makes heart and body extract as

2558
01:47:31,490 --> 01:47:29,550
great a value now as it was the first

2559
01:47:33,650 --> 01:47:31,500
day we sold it a healthy heart is a

2560
01:47:39,680 --> 01:47:33,660
happy heart call eight six six two nine

2561
01:47:39,690 --> 01:47:45,080
[Music]

2562
01:47:53,120 --> 01:47:48,810
welcome back to the para cast the gold

2563
01:48:01,530 --> 01:47:53,130
standard of paranormal radio and now

2564
01:48:03,720 --> 01:48:01,540
here's Jane Steinberg with Jean and

2565
01:48:05,850 --> 01:48:03,730
Chris in the para cast we have Nick

2566
01:48:08,640 --> 01:48:05,860
Redfern his latest book Close Encounters

2567
01:48:09,780 --> 01:48:08,650
of the fatal kind in the previous

2568
01:48:12,450 --> 01:48:09,790
segment he was telling us about the

2569
01:48:14,340 --> 01:48:12,460
death of NK Jessup and about the fact

2570
01:48:15,540 --> 01:48:14,350
that next year is gonna be a book about

2571
01:48:17,790 --> 01:48:15,550
it Chris

2572
01:48:20,550 --> 01:48:17,800
well I find it interesting to Nick that

2573
01:48:24,810 --> 01:48:20,560
this morning in my inbox there was an

2574
01:48:27,270 --> 01:48:24,820
email from you announcing that a re s

2575
01:48:29,250 --> 01:48:27,280
publication of the annotated version of

2576
01:48:31,260 --> 01:48:29,260
Justin's book is actually are now

2577
01:48:33,300 --> 01:48:31,270
available yeah it's one of those sort of

2578
01:48:35,400 --> 01:48:33,310
weird synchronicities that pop up in

2579
01:48:37,440 --> 01:48:35,410
ufology quite often or for Dioner in

2580
01:48:39,780 --> 01:48:37,450
general yeah there's just just literally

2581
01:48:42,090 --> 01:48:39,790
right now a new version of the annotated

2582
01:48:44,010 --> 01:48:42,100
version and Jessup's book is now

2583
01:48:45,930 --> 01:48:44,020
available and at the original of course

2584
01:48:49,170 --> 01:48:45,940
you can still buy original copies on

2585
01:48:50,430 --> 01:48:49,180
Amazon or wherever of Jessup's book of

2586
01:48:52,800 --> 01:48:50,440
course they're not annotated they're

2587
01:48:54,330 --> 01:48:52,810
just old hardbacks from the fifties but

2588
01:48:56,400 --> 01:48:54,340
the annotated one which has got all

2589
01:48:57,930 --> 01:48:56,410
these scribblings in from carlos Allende

2590
01:49:00,360 --> 01:48:57,940
that is the ones that the vero

2591
01:49:02,520 --> 01:49:00,370
cooperation and ran off like 25 copies

2592
01:49:05,370 --> 01:49:02,530
unlike a mimeograph machine for the Navy

2593
01:49:07,200 --> 01:49:05,380
and it's a it's like a photocopy or a

2594
01:49:09,270 --> 01:49:07,210
faster mile of that version with all the

2595
01:49:11,820 --> 01:49:09,280
scribbling zin that's just been released

2596
01:49:14,400 --> 01:49:11,830
by a new source Aryan books exactly a

2597
01:49:16,200 --> 01:49:14,410
really good prize like $17 the originals

2598
01:49:18,000 --> 01:49:16,210
were we're moving at one point for like

2599
01:49:21,450 --> 01:49:18,010
four figures if you could get your hands

2600
01:49:22,920 --> 01:49:21,460
on one of these 25 copies printed by the

2601
01:49:25,140 --> 01:49:22,930
Barrow corporation they were literally

2602
01:49:27,479 --> 01:49:25,150
shifting for you know four figures so

2603
01:49:30,479 --> 01:49:27,489
$17 he's a great save and if you want to

2604
01:49:33,060 --> 01:49:30,489
get that book and so just Google case

2605
01:49:35,250 --> 01:49:33,070
for the UFO new source Aryan books and

2606
01:49:37,710 --> 01:49:35,260
you'll find it I know that I had a copy

2607
01:49:39,660 --> 01:49:37,720
event I gave that copy to Charles

2608
01:49:45,150 --> 01:49:39,670
Berlitz my copy and he never returned it

2609
01:49:46,890 --> 01:49:45,160
but that's okay that's how it goes all

2610
01:49:48,390 --> 01:49:46,900
right Chris you want to go back to some

2611
01:49:51,210 --> 01:49:48,400
more questions or should we ask about

2612
01:49:53,340 --> 01:49:51,220
dr. James McDonald yeah let's talk about

2613
01:49:54,959 --> 01:49:53,350
McDonald first I do have some other

2614
01:49:56,670 --> 01:49:54,969
questions that kind of jump ahead in

2615
01:49:57,959 --> 01:49:56,680
time a little bit here in our our

2616
01:50:00,120 --> 01:49:57,969
timeline okay

2617
01:50:02,750 --> 01:50:00,130
dr. James McDonald one of the few

2618
01:50:05,819 --> 01:50:02,760
scientists who actively and publicly

2619
01:50:08,850 --> 01:50:05,829
conceded he was interested in UFOs he

2620
01:50:10,830 --> 01:50:08,860
dies early a little too early what

2621
01:50:12,540 --> 01:50:10,840
happened well you know I mean McDonald's

2622
01:50:15,029 --> 01:50:12,550
I see somebody I don't include in the

2623
01:50:17,520 --> 01:50:15,039
book because there are certain sort of

2624
01:50:20,279 --> 01:50:17,530
criteria I was looking for and you know

2625
01:50:22,439 --> 01:50:20,289
one of the ones was whether or not some

2626
01:50:24,569 --> 01:50:22,449
of the people who died had ill health

2627
01:50:26,489 --> 01:50:24,579
for a long time before they died you

2628
01:50:28,169 --> 01:50:26,499
know rather than out of the blue sudden

2629
01:50:30,120 --> 01:50:28,179
deaths and the other one was what was

2630
01:50:31,979 --> 01:50:30,130
going on in their private lives that

2631
01:50:33,450 --> 01:50:31,989
might have had something to do with the

2632
01:50:36,200 --> 01:50:33,460
death you know the thing I point out in

2633
01:50:40,439 --> 01:50:36,210
the book we all have to remember is the

2634
01:50:42,600 --> 01:50:40,449
UFO researchers are painful first you

2635
01:50:45,180 --> 01:50:42,610
know with relationships and things going

2636
01:50:47,790 --> 01:50:45,190
on in their lives that have nothing to

2637
01:50:49,200 --> 01:50:47,800
do with ufology and I think very often

2638
01:50:52,169 --> 01:50:49,210
there's a tendency for people to think

2639
01:50:53,549 --> 01:50:52,179
if you're ufologists that's all you do

2640
01:50:55,680 --> 01:50:53,559
you know which is crazy

2641
01:50:58,799 --> 01:50:55,690
you know we have normal life social life

2642
01:51:00,149 --> 01:50:58,809
my husband's you know the whole you know

2643
01:51:03,060 --> 01:51:00,159
it's not like we some sort of weird

2644
01:51:05,489 --> 01:51:03,070
offshoot of the human race well not all

2645
01:51:08,069 --> 01:51:05,499
of us speak for yourself

2646
01:51:10,529 --> 01:51:08,079
yeah the grounded ones among the the

2647
01:51:12,390 --> 01:51:10,539
group here do have real lives but there

2648
01:51:15,209 --> 01:51:12,400
are some people that live and breathe

2649
01:51:17,399 --> 01:51:15,219
this stuff 24/7 but then you find that

2650
01:51:19,890 --> 01:51:17,409
people who collect stamps and make model

2651
01:51:21,569 --> 01:51:19,900
airplanes you know crazies I call them

2652
01:51:24,000 --> 01:51:21,579
crazies anyway but the point I'm making

2653
01:51:26,160 --> 01:51:24,010
is that McDonald was someone who was

2654
01:51:27,930 --> 01:51:26,170
having major problems you know and his

2655
01:51:30,270 --> 01:51:27,940
private life he had issues with his wife

2656
01:51:31,709 --> 01:51:30,280
his relationship was suffering you know

2657
01:51:34,229 --> 01:51:31,719
then there was this one attempted

2658
01:51:36,959 --> 01:51:34,239
suicide which left him blind you know I

2659
01:51:38,910 --> 01:51:36,969
mean people this may disagree with me to

2660
01:51:41,910 --> 01:51:38,920
me that sounds more like a tragic case

2661
01:51:44,370 --> 01:51:41,920
of somebody in ufology dying under

2662
01:51:46,229 --> 01:51:44,380
tragic circumstances you know and there

2663
01:51:47,759 --> 01:51:46,239
was a lot of people I left out of the

2664
01:51:49,109 --> 01:51:47,769
book who some people say why didn't you

2665
01:51:50,819 --> 01:51:49,119
include this person why did somebody

2666
01:51:53,790 --> 01:51:50,829
said why didn't you include Mac tonus I

2667
01:51:57,959 --> 01:51:53,800
swore Mac had heart disease quite a

2668
01:52:00,120 --> 01:51:57,969
while before he died in 2009 I remember

2669
01:52:02,489 --> 01:52:00,130
speaking to him like a year almost

2670
01:52:04,529 --> 01:52:02,499
before when he started having fainting

2671
01:52:07,109 --> 01:52:04,539
experiences at work and go and dizzy and

2672
01:52:09,419 --> 01:52:07,119
passing out and he was trying to get the

2673
01:52:11,760 --> 01:52:09,429
doctors you know to do studies you know

2674
01:52:13,560 --> 01:52:11,770
if you find you know football players

2675
01:52:15,630 --> 01:52:13,570
baseball players die on the pitch at 30

2676
01:52:17,880 --> 01:52:15,640
now and again it's not sinister but I

2677
01:52:19,830 --> 01:52:17,890
think when it's ufology people assume it

2678
01:52:21,810 --> 01:52:19,840
has to be sinister which which isn't the

2679
01:52:24,630 --> 01:52:21,820
case so you have to be very careful what

2680
01:52:27,720 --> 01:52:24,640
you accept as a legitimate mysterious

2681
01:52:30,510 --> 01:52:27,730
death versus what is just you know an

2682
01:52:32,670 --> 01:52:30,520
unfortunate number of people on the

2683
01:52:34,560 --> 01:52:32,680
planet die young or you know kill

2684
01:52:38,940 --> 01:52:34,570
themselves or whatever yeah good point

2685
01:52:40,710 --> 01:52:38,950
and again with a 65,000 word limit

2686
01:52:44,250 --> 01:52:40,720
you're only going to be able to include

2687
01:52:47,220 --> 01:52:44,260
so much yeah without just doing a you

2688
01:52:48,570 --> 01:52:47,230
know just a brief mention or something

2689
01:52:50,310 --> 01:52:48,580
yeah I mean I wouldn't want people to

2690
01:52:52,050 --> 01:52:50,320
think I've read the book I just kind of

2691
01:52:53,640 --> 01:52:52,060
like race through in a million miles

2692
01:52:56,400 --> 01:52:53,650
inherit or each one no I'm in each

2693
01:52:59,580 --> 01:52:56,410
chapter gets like a good 15 page

2694
01:53:01,920 --> 01:52:59,590
treatment you know a detailed summary of

2695
01:53:05,880 --> 01:53:01,930
the entire case but like with Maury

2696
01:53:07,830 --> 01:53:05,890
island or Roswell or Montel you know you

2697
01:53:11,190 --> 01:53:07,840
could turn any of those into full-length

2698
01:53:13,020 --> 01:53:11,200
books and people have yeah well one

2699
01:53:17,430 --> 01:53:13,030
chapter obviously Nick that that really

2700
01:53:20,700 --> 01:53:17,440
intrigued me was chapter 12 about UFOs

2701
01:53:24,210 --> 01:53:20,710
and you know this whole kind of taboo

2702
01:53:26,880 --> 01:53:24,220
subject of human mutilations I in my

2703
01:53:29,850 --> 01:53:26,890
book I do have a section of a chapter

2704
01:53:31,890 --> 01:53:29,860
that I devote to that subject you cover

2705
01:53:36,450 --> 01:53:31,900
some of the same material in your

2706
01:53:40,170 --> 01:53:36,460
chapter the whole idea of ET coming down

2707
01:53:43,050 --> 01:53:40,180
and mutilating livestock you know if

2708
01:53:47,370 --> 01:53:43,060
that's if that's a real connection

2709
01:53:50,610 --> 01:53:47,380
that's disturbing enough but I see an

2710
01:53:55,050 --> 01:53:50,620
interesting document that you reprinted

2711
01:53:57,690 --> 01:53:55,060
in here that is rather disturbing it's

2712
01:54:01,890 --> 01:53:57,700
coming from the director of the FBI in

2713
01:54:05,220 --> 01:54:01,900
76 saying that the federal investigative

2714
01:54:06,960 --> 01:54:05,230
agencies and also theories that these

2715
01:54:09,060 --> 01:54:06,970
mutilations of cattle are only a

2716
01:54:11,490 --> 01:54:09,070
forerunner for later mutilations of

2717
01:54:13,050 --> 01:54:11,500
human beings this is something that I I

2718
01:54:16,170 --> 01:54:13,060
was not aware of this particular

2719
01:54:18,540 --> 01:54:16,180
document and let let's go ahead and just

2720
01:54:20,790 --> 01:54:18,550
quickly go go into this whole very

2721
01:54:23,040 --> 01:54:20,800
troubling subject that you know the

2722
01:54:25,230 --> 01:54:23,050
benevolence pace brother a true believer

2723
01:54:29,700 --> 01:54:25,240
crowd like Steven Greer and others

2724
01:54:31,620 --> 01:54:29,710
are you absolutely in denial that this

2725
01:54:35,010 --> 01:54:31,630
could possibly even be a worthy subject

2726
01:54:37,610 --> 01:54:35,020
to discuss where do you come down on

2727
01:54:41,910 --> 01:54:37,620
this whole idea of livestock mutilations

2728
01:54:44,610 --> 01:54:41,920
possibly being tied to more troubling

2729
01:54:46,980 --> 01:54:44,620
mutilations of humans well yeah I mean I

2730
01:54:48,930 --> 01:54:46,990
think the first thing I should preface

2731
01:54:50,820 --> 01:54:48,940
but people won't be that document that

2732
01:54:52,530 --> 01:54:50,830
you mentioned he's a legitimate free to

2733
01:54:53,130 --> 01:54:52,540
be an information doctoring service from

2734
01:54:58,260 --> 01:54:53,140
the FBI

2735
01:54:59,970 --> 01:54:58,270
and stated October 76 and this has

2736
01:55:03,540 --> 01:54:59,980
appeared when the FBI was actively

2737
01:55:06,050 --> 01:55:03,550
collecting reports from what New Mexico

2738
01:55:09,120 --> 01:55:06,060
State Police on cattle mutilations and

2739
01:55:11,160 --> 01:55:09,130
one of the things they got hold of was

2740
01:55:14,430 --> 01:55:11,170
an article published in wee magazine in

2741
01:55:17,010 --> 01:55:14,440
September 76 on cattle mutilations and

2742
01:55:19,170 --> 01:55:17,020
for some reason we don't know the

2743
01:55:23,610 --> 01:55:19,180
special agents in charge of Springfield

2744
01:55:26,370 --> 01:55:23,620
Illinois Mail or mailed at the time the

2745
01:55:28,800 --> 01:55:26,380
director of the FBI a document stating

2746
01:55:31,230 --> 01:55:28,810
or specifically highlighting that there

2747
01:55:33,660 --> 01:55:31,240
was a theory that the mutilations were a

2748
01:55:36,570 --> 01:55:33,670
forerunner for humor mutilations now

2749
01:55:38,130 --> 01:55:36,580
what's kind of intriguing is why that

2750
01:55:40,200 --> 01:55:38,140
particular point should have been

2751
01:55:42,240 --> 01:55:40,210
highlighted for the Barretts of the FBI

2752
01:55:44,190 --> 01:55:42,250
it kind of makes me think that perhaps

2753
01:55:46,170 --> 01:55:44,200
have been other rumors and stories that

2754
01:55:49,110 --> 01:55:46,180
had reached the FBI and that was a

2755
01:55:51,570 --> 01:55:49,120
specific reason why the way article was

2756
01:55:54,540 --> 01:55:51,580
singled out form from the circulating

2757
01:55:58,230 --> 01:55:54,550
throughout various departments of the

2758
01:56:00,810 --> 01:55:58,240
FBI but to get to the overall issue of

2759
01:56:02,970 --> 01:56:00,820
humor mutilations I think more than

2760
01:56:05,040 --> 01:56:02,980
anything else when it comes to UFO

2761
01:56:06,570 --> 01:56:05,050
secrecy I think that's possibly the one

2762
01:56:09,030 --> 01:56:06,580
thing more than any other that would be

2763
01:56:11,880 --> 01:56:09,040
clamped down on the idea that people

2764
01:56:14,820 --> 01:56:11,890
haven't just been abducted or studied or

2765
01:56:15,900 --> 01:56:14,830
you know bathed in some weird light or

2766
01:56:19,080 --> 01:56:15,910
whatever but I've actually been

2767
01:56:22,350 --> 01:56:19,090
systematically killed and dissected that

2768
01:56:24,540 --> 01:56:22,360
would be something you know totally out

2769
01:56:27,690 --> 01:56:24,550
of the arena so to speak in terms of

2770
01:56:29,510 --> 01:56:27,700
secrecy levels but there are a number of

2771
01:56:32,550 --> 01:56:29,520
stories granted there aren't that many

2772
01:56:34,260 --> 01:56:32,560
which may be a good thing you know in

2773
01:56:36,060 --> 01:56:34,270
terms of the number of reports that

2774
01:56:38,740 --> 01:56:36,070
actually occurred but I talk about one

2775
01:56:42,280 --> 01:56:38,750
very controversial one from 72

2776
01:56:44,560 --> 01:56:42,290
in Cambodia which surfy some Leonard

2777
01:56:47,200 --> 01:56:44,570
Stringfield who was a well-known UFO

2778
01:56:48,910 --> 01:56:47,210
researcher who died in the 90s and he

2779
01:56:51,580 --> 01:56:48,920
said he'd spoken to a high-ranking

2780
01:56:53,680 --> 01:56:51,590
military source who relate to this story

2781
01:56:56,020 --> 01:56:53,690
of how a US military team out in

2782
01:56:59,020 --> 01:56:56,030
Cambodia in the jungles in looking for

2783
01:57:00,460 --> 01:56:59,030
North Vietnamese troops came across what

2784
01:57:02,860 --> 01:57:00,470
we will call a classic flying-saucer

2785
01:57:05,650 --> 01:57:02,870
like a huge globe types or something

2786
01:57:08,470 --> 01:57:05,660
whether were these clearly alien

2787
01:57:11,110 --> 01:57:08,480
creatures loadings dead humans and body

2788
01:57:13,330 --> 01:57:11,120
parts into these large bins sealing them

2789
01:57:15,700 --> 01:57:13,340
and then loading them aboard the UFO now

2790
01:57:18,820 --> 01:57:15,710
it sounds like sci-fi but Stringfield

2791
01:57:20,740 --> 01:57:18,830
did go on record as stating but he

2792
01:57:21,790 --> 01:57:20,750
verified his source he knew him and he

2793
01:57:23,830 --> 01:57:21,800
stood by the story

2794
01:57:25,930 --> 01:57:23,840
we've got Nick Redfern talking about

2795
01:57:27,490 --> 01:57:25,940
human mutilations and some information

2796
01:57:29,380 --> 01:57:27,500
that came from the late Leonard

2797
01:57:38,050 --> 01:57:29,390
Stringfield a lot more to come with Gene

2798
01:57:41,140 --> 01:57:38,060
and Kris you're in neighbors are you

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Treasuries are a safe haven but what do

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02:00:02,770 --> 02:00:00,680
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02:01:49,650 --> 02:01:46,270
about the para cast sent it to muse at

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the para cast com that's news at the

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para cast calm and don't forget to visit

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forum dot the para cast comm here in the

2892
02:02:04,470 --> 02:02:02,860
para cast Nick Redfern here for three

2893
02:02:06,990 --> 02:02:04,480
more segments the book is Close

2894
02:02:08,820 --> 02:02:07,000
Encounters of the fatal kind you're

2895
02:02:10,500 --> 02:02:08,830
telling us about the story from Leonard

2896
02:02:13,980 --> 02:02:10,510
Stringfield who was a pretty straight

2897
02:02:15,900 --> 02:02:13,990
ahead guy about UFOs collecting dead

2898
02:02:18,240 --> 02:02:15,910
humans and bringing them aboard their

2899
02:02:20,610 --> 02:02:18,250
spacecraft yeah Stringfield said this

2900
02:02:22,430 --> 02:02:20,620
came from a high-ranking military source

2901
02:02:24,600 --> 02:02:22,440
now back at the time eighty nine

2902
02:02:26,400 --> 02:02:24,610
Stringfield didn't go public with his

2903
02:02:28,160 --> 02:02:26,410
name and he didn't up to the day died

2904
02:02:30,630 --> 02:02:28,170
but just a couple of years ago

2905
02:02:33,240 --> 02:02:30,640
stringfield's files are handed over to

2906
02:02:35,340 --> 02:02:33,250
move on I think it was move on anyway

2907
02:02:38,100 --> 02:02:35,350
what I'm thinking is if somebody were to

2908
02:02:40,620 --> 02:02:38,110
go through those original files and they

2909
02:02:42,420 --> 02:02:40,630
found the raw data reports that

2910
02:02:44,340 --> 02:02:42,430
Springfield had from this guy

2911
02:02:46,890 --> 02:02:44,350
surely his name would be mentioned

2912
02:02:49,530 --> 02:02:46,900
within those files you know he was only

2913
02:02:51,120 --> 02:02:49,540
publicly but Stringfield help withheld

2914
02:02:52,860 --> 02:02:51,130
so many names and that was one of the

2915
02:02:54,690 --> 02:02:52,870
things that many researchers criticized

2916
02:02:56,850 --> 02:02:54,700
him for yeah some really intriguing

2917
02:02:59,550 --> 02:02:56,860
crashed UFO stories but he always

2918
02:03:00,930 --> 02:02:59,560
withheld the names but that was publicly

2919
02:03:03,330 --> 02:03:00,940
but it was someone were to go through

2920
02:03:05,430 --> 02:03:03,340
the original files I would bet that at

2921
02:03:07,620 --> 02:03:05,440
some point they'd come across

2922
02:03:10,080 --> 02:03:07,630
the original interview that he did we've

2923
02:03:11,850 --> 02:03:10,090
you know Colonel whoever who told him

2924
02:03:14,340 --> 02:03:11,860
this story so that might open more doors

2925
02:03:16,560 --> 02:03:14,350
now there are a few other stories about

2926
02:03:19,710 --> 02:03:16,570
bodies being found under unusual

2927
02:03:22,290 --> 02:03:19,720
circumstances and which clearly didn't

2928
02:03:25,530 --> 02:03:22,300
look like predator style activity a

2929
02:03:27,420 --> 02:03:25,540
famous one from Idaho between the towns

2930
02:03:30,480 --> 02:03:27,430
of bliss and Jerome we're disposing

2931
02:03:33,120 --> 02:03:30,490
seventy nine a couple of hunters

2932
02:03:35,910 --> 02:03:33,130
stumbled on the body of a man who's both

2933
02:03:37,920 --> 02:03:35,920
his lips were missing sexual organs were

2934
02:03:40,020 --> 02:03:37,930
gone one of his ears was gone but he

2935
02:03:41,730 --> 02:03:40,030
didn't again look like you know he'd

2936
02:03:44,190 --> 02:03:41,740
been attacked by a mountain lion or a

2937
02:03:47,100 --> 02:03:44,200
bear so in that sense it's sort of

2938
02:03:48,990 --> 02:03:47,110
eerily mirrors the cattle mutilations

2939
02:03:51,570 --> 02:03:49,000
but when Chris asked you know what where

2940
02:03:54,240 --> 02:03:51,580
do I stand on all this I think it's like

2941
02:03:56,520 --> 02:03:54,250
crisp mentions in stalking the herd I

2942
02:03:58,050 --> 02:03:56,530
think one of the problems we've got is

2943
02:04:00,780 --> 02:03:58,060
so many people to looked at it for him

2944
02:04:02,670 --> 02:04:00,790
it's either this or it either that but

2945
02:04:05,160 --> 02:04:02,680
there could actually be a couple of big

2946
02:04:07,170 --> 02:04:05,170
things that are going on but because

2947
02:04:08,850 --> 02:04:07,180
they're kind of similar they become

2948
02:04:11,970 --> 02:04:08,860
lumped into one phenomenon and that's

2949
02:04:14,520 --> 02:04:11,980
why to become puzzling where we have

2950
02:04:16,710 --> 02:04:14,530
what's safely legitimate UFO sightings

2951
02:04:18,750 --> 02:04:16,720
in some cases but then we have what are

2952
02:04:20,520 --> 02:04:18,760
clearly helicopters in other cases and

2953
02:04:23,190 --> 02:04:20,530
then you know there's maybe even

2954
02:04:25,770 --> 02:04:23,200
evidence of cult type activity so I

2955
02:04:28,200 --> 02:04:25,780
don't think necessarily it's just one

2956
02:04:29,880 --> 02:04:28,210
thing but I am sort of really intrigued

2957
02:04:34,070 --> 02:04:29,890
by all the research that chris has done

2958
02:04:36,450 --> 02:04:34,080
into the whole issue of like viruses and

2959
02:04:38,490 --> 02:04:36,460
Alzheimer's and you know the infection

2960
02:04:41,010 --> 02:04:38,500
of the beef industry and things like

2961
02:04:43,350 --> 02:04:41,020
that I think that's sort of highly

2962
02:04:46,560 --> 02:04:43,360
plausible and ominous at the same time

2963
02:04:49,050 --> 02:04:46,570
and we should note that Don Ecker you

2964
02:04:51,840 --> 02:04:49,060
know our good friend and colleague spent

2965
02:04:53,790 --> 02:04:51,850
a number of years off and on trying to

2966
02:04:56,760 --> 02:04:53,800
get to the bottom of cases he was told

2967
02:04:58,050 --> 02:04:56,770
about and and really as a next law

2968
02:04:59,370 --> 02:04:58,060
enforcement official with some

2969
02:05:01,590 --> 02:04:59,380
connections you would think he'd be able

2970
02:05:05,360 --> 02:05:01,600
to at least make some headway on this

2971
02:05:09,810 --> 02:05:05,370
and he just hit a brick wall on this and

2972
02:05:11,580 --> 02:05:09,820
as have I I have had over my 20 years of

2973
02:05:13,740 --> 02:05:11,590
looking into the whole mutilation

2974
02:05:16,140 --> 02:05:13,750
phenomenon I've had some really good

2975
02:05:19,080 --> 02:05:16,150
solid you know I think credible leads

2976
02:05:22,470 --> 02:05:19,090
that I've attempted to follow up on

2977
02:05:24,690 --> 02:05:22,480
and in one case I lost what I considered

2978
02:05:27,900 --> 02:05:24,700
a very valuable source within a you know

2979
02:05:30,000 --> 02:05:27,910
a state police organization simply

2980
02:05:32,460 --> 02:05:30,010
because I pressed them when they told me

2981
02:05:33,750 --> 02:05:32,470
don't ask me about this and I said well

2982
02:05:36,240 --> 02:05:33,760
wait a minute yeah that was the last

2983
02:05:38,220 --> 02:05:36,250
time I ever was able to talk to them so

2984
02:05:40,350 --> 02:05:38,230
I mean that that was an indication to me

2985
02:05:43,050 --> 02:05:40,360
that I wasn't barking up the wrong tree

2986
02:05:45,840 --> 02:05:43,060
and that an incredible lid of secrecy

2987
02:05:48,240 --> 02:05:45,850
has been placed on these cases by by the

2988
02:05:49,530 --> 02:05:48,250
law-enforcement fraternity well yeah I

2989
02:05:51,720 --> 02:05:49,540
would agree with that I mean I've been

2990
02:05:53,550 --> 02:05:51,730
to Puerto Rico on quite a few times

2991
02:05:55,500 --> 02:05:53,560
looking for the chupacabra and every

2992
02:05:57,900 --> 02:05:55,510
time I've been out heard rumors about

2993
02:06:00,420 --> 02:05:57,910
humor mutilations rather than just

2994
02:06:02,550 --> 02:06:00,430
animal attacks and again they're the

2995
02:06:04,080 --> 02:06:02,560
ones interesting enough that most people

2996
02:06:05,790 --> 02:06:04,090
don't really want to talk about and that

2997
02:06:07,130 --> 02:06:05,800
includes the civil defense people I

2998
02:06:09,540 --> 02:06:07,140
actually had a couple of conversations

2999
02:06:12,060 --> 02:06:09,550
the second time I went excuse me the

3000
02:06:13,650 --> 02:06:12,070
third time I went there with some of the

3001
02:06:15,510 --> 02:06:13,660
civil defense people and they said well

3002
02:06:17,550 --> 02:06:15,520
you know I I don't know anything

3003
02:06:19,020 --> 02:06:17,560
personally about it but yeah we've all

3004
02:06:21,360 --> 02:06:19,030
heard these stories about human

3005
02:06:23,040 --> 02:06:21,370
mutilations and somebody came in and

3006
02:06:24,420 --> 02:06:23,050
lock it all down and you know we're

3007
02:06:26,430 --> 02:06:24,430
supposed to talk about it the

3008
02:06:28,710 --> 02:06:26,440
chupacabras fine I don't mind us talking

3009
02:06:31,470 --> 02:06:28,720
about that but these sort of human mutes

3010
02:06:33,090 --> 02:06:31,480
was like a no-go area I actually came

3011
02:06:34,950 --> 02:06:33,100
across as very believable because they

3012
02:06:37,260 --> 02:06:34,960
weren't trying to spin some huge stories

3013
02:06:38,550 --> 02:06:37,270
saying oh you know this great story and

3014
02:06:40,590 --> 02:06:38,560
he's all the details but you can never

3015
02:06:42,450 --> 02:06:40,600
talk about it they were just like now

3016
02:06:44,280 --> 02:06:42,460
we've heard rumors we've heard these

3017
02:06:46,440 --> 02:06:44,290
stories like bodies found drained of

3018
02:06:47,430 --> 02:06:46,450
blood and organs gone but I really don't

3019
02:06:49,580 --> 02:06:47,440
know anything more than that

3020
02:06:51,600 --> 02:06:49,590
other than we were told not to sort of

3021
02:06:54,270 --> 02:06:51,610
sensationalize it or give it you know

3022
02:06:56,310 --> 02:06:54,280
any sort of credibility or to actually

3023
02:06:58,770 --> 02:06:56,320
talk about it even well you know now

3024
02:07:00,960 --> 02:06:58,780
that you we kind of broke this

3025
02:07:05,250 --> 02:07:00,970
particular subject of course you know

3026
02:07:07,350 --> 02:07:05,260
the very intense Caloris incidents down

3027
02:07:10,740 --> 02:07:07,360
in brazil the mouth of the amazon on the

3028
02:07:13,440 --> 02:07:10,750
island forest you know you do briefly

3029
02:07:15,860 --> 02:07:13,450
mention some of these cases Bob Pratt of

3030
02:07:18,210 --> 02:07:15,870
course wrote a book on these events

3031
02:07:20,910 --> 02:07:18,220
where do you come down on that I mean I

3032
02:07:24,330 --> 02:07:20,920
I find this particular case though one

3033
02:07:26,400 --> 02:07:24,340
of the more troubling cases of of UFOs

3034
02:07:29,250 --> 02:07:26,410
actually really appearing to act in a

3035
02:07:31,890 --> 02:07:29,260
hostile dangerous manner towards people

3036
02:07:33,180 --> 02:07:31,900
well yeah I mean that casing alone as a

3037
02:07:34,680 --> 02:07:33,190
standalone case he's

3038
02:07:37,350 --> 02:07:34,690
very silly interesting disturbing but

3039
02:07:39,870 --> 02:07:37,360
equally if you look at South America as

3040
02:07:42,750 --> 02:07:39,880
a whole the entire continent seems to

3041
02:07:46,260 --> 02:07:42,760
have a hell of a lot more really violent

3042
02:07:48,360 --> 02:07:46,270
UFO cases than the rest of the world to

3043
02:07:49,979 --> 02:07:48,370
where it's where these outright hostile

3044
02:07:52,189 --> 02:07:49,989
you know the reports of debts and

3045
02:07:54,840 --> 02:07:52,199
disappearances and severe injuries and

3046
02:07:57,150 --> 02:07:54,850
and it's kind of weird that South

3047
02:07:59,790 --> 02:07:57,160
America as a continent who said gets

3048
02:08:02,310 --> 02:07:59,800
this and other places don't I don't know

3049
02:08:04,229 --> 02:08:02,320
why that should be but I mean but there

3050
02:08:05,160 --> 02:08:04,239
is a clear trend that there's no doubt

3051
02:08:07,470 --> 02:08:05,170
about that at all

3052
02:08:10,680 --> 02:08:07,480
well let's see where where can we go

3053
02:08:14,760 --> 02:08:10,690
with that Nick what about other what

3054
02:08:19,110 --> 02:08:14,770
appear to be cases that exhibit hostile

3055
02:08:22,080 --> 02:08:19,120
intent by UFO occupants of course we do

3056
02:08:24,750 --> 02:08:22,090
have the accidental type cases the

3057
02:08:27,240 --> 02:08:24,760
castle anthem case could have been you

3058
02:08:30,630 --> 02:08:27,250
know construed as an accidental exposure

3059
02:08:34,620 --> 02:08:30,640
to you know to radiation the Rendlesham

3060
02:08:36,540 --> 02:08:34,630
forest case is another case they it you

3061
02:08:38,910 --> 02:08:36,550
don't really see some sort of hostile

3062
02:08:41,280 --> 02:08:38,920
intent what about other cases that we

3063
02:08:44,100 --> 02:08:41,290
have indications that there is hostile

3064
02:08:45,990 --> 02:08:44,110
intent well I mean in terms of one

3065
02:08:48,959 --> 02:08:46,000
particular theory one that really stands

3066
02:08:50,490 --> 02:08:48,969
out is the many literally dozens of

3067
02:08:54,170 --> 02:08:50,500
deaths that I talked about in the book

3068
02:08:57,209 --> 02:08:54,180
of scientists and computer program

3069
02:09:01,130 --> 02:08:57,219
programmers all sorts of people working

3070
02:09:03,630 --> 02:09:01,140
for the Marconi company in England oh

3071
02:09:06,000 --> 02:09:03,640
yeah we've died under very questionable

3072
02:09:09,150 --> 02:09:06,010
circumstances between the early 80s and

3073
02:09:11,370 --> 02:09:09,160
the early 90s now the reason I mentioned

3074
02:09:13,020 --> 02:09:11,380
this in terms of hostile actions on the

3075
02:09:14,790 --> 02:09:13,030
part of extraterrestrials is because of

3076
02:09:17,189 --> 02:09:14,800
one particular theory which I'll come to

3077
02:09:19,320 --> 02:09:17,199
well what we know for sure and this is a

3078
02:09:22,800 --> 02:09:19,330
matter of the official record as I said

3079
02:09:24,600 --> 02:09:22,810
between 82 and the early 90s there was

3080
02:09:27,209 --> 02:09:24,610
the deaths of somewhere in the region

3081
02:09:29,850 --> 02:09:27,219
about 30 to 35 people who either

3082
02:09:32,760 --> 02:09:29,860
directly work for or indirectly were

3083
02:09:34,590 --> 02:09:32,770
connected to Marconi in England Marconi

3084
02:09:36,959 --> 02:09:34,600
which has now been absorbed into another

3085
02:09:39,030 --> 02:09:36,969
company but did a lot of groundbreaking

3086
02:09:41,700 --> 02:09:39,040
research for the British military and

3087
02:09:43,590 --> 02:09:41,710
the Ministry of Defence and in the 80s

3088
02:09:46,540 --> 02:09:43,600
it was tasked with doing contract work

3089
02:09:49,450 --> 02:09:46,550
for President Reagan's

3090
02:09:51,729 --> 02:09:49,460
Strategic Defense Initiative SDI or Star

3091
02:09:54,490 --> 02:09:51,739
Wars as it was more famously nicknamed

3092
02:09:56,830 --> 02:09:54,500
now Star Wars were supposedly or the

3093
02:10:00,040 --> 02:09:56,840
plan was to have like an orbiting armada

3094
02:10:01,870 --> 02:10:00,050
of laser based weapon systems in the

3095
02:10:04,629 --> 02:10:01,880
event of the Russians or the Chinese or

3096
02:10:07,510 --> 02:10:04,639
whoever launched a sneak nuclear attack

3097
02:10:09,669 --> 02:10:07,520
we could literally blast or vaporize

3098
02:10:12,939 --> 02:10:09,679
these missiles before they barely got

3099
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out of the silos we will be vaporized if

3100
02:10:16,450 --> 02:10:14,690
we don't do our break how about that

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3196
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gluten-free proteome one is the key to

3197
02:14:19,500 --> 02:14:17,140
your digestive health

3198
02:14:23,610 --> 02:14:19,510
Porter pro am one daily probiotic lens

3199
02:14:28,080 --> 02:14:23,620
at Tarragona calm spelled ter AGA and IX

3200
02:14:29,760 --> 02:14:28,090
calm or call toll-free 866 3 6 9 3 6 7 8

3201
02:14:31,680 --> 02:14:29,770
that's eight six six three six nine

3202
02:14:33,990 --> 02:14:31,690
three six seven eight also available

3203
02:14:41,640 --> 02:14:34,000
through Amazon Prime pro-am one from

3204
02:14:43,110 --> 02:14:41,650
Tara Gannicus life's getting better this

3205
02:14:45,360 --> 02:14:43,120
is Leslie Kane and I'm with the

3206
02:14:49,620 --> 02:14:45,370
Coalition for freedom of information and

3207
02:14:51,510 --> 02:14:49,630
you are listening to the podcast with

3208
02:14:53,610 --> 02:14:51,520
Tina Chris two more segments of the

3209
02:14:55,230 --> 02:14:53,620
power cast with Nick Redfern let's get

3210
02:14:58,380 --> 02:14:55,240
back the book is called Close Encounters

3211
02:15:01,050 --> 02:14:58,390
of the fatal kind Nick says this will be

3212
02:15:04,530 --> 02:15:01,060
his last conspiratorial UFO type book

3213
02:15:09,330 --> 02:15:04,540
we'll see it we'll see if he doesn't get

3214
02:15:11,400 --> 02:15:09,340
sucked in again I'm done with it

3215
02:15:12,900 --> 02:15:11,410
there you go why wait a minute wait a

3216
02:15:16,050 --> 02:15:12,910
minute why are you done with it

3217
02:15:20,130 --> 02:15:16,060
have you said all there is to be said or

3218
02:15:22,380 --> 02:15:20,140
no iron in it you know actually I'm not

3219
02:15:24,420 --> 02:15:22,390
tired of conspiracy based stuff at all

3220
02:15:26,700 --> 02:15:24,430
it's not that in the slightest it's just

3221
02:15:29,310 --> 02:15:26,710
that having done a 32 books

3222
02:15:30,900 --> 02:15:29,320
17 of which are on conspiracies what I

3223
02:15:34,740 --> 02:15:30,910
don't want to do and I've never wanted

3224
02:15:37,710 --> 02:15:34,750
to do is sort of cheat the reader by you

3225
02:15:41,130 --> 02:15:37,720
know just doing a book where everything

3226
02:15:43,190 --> 02:15:41,140
has all been seen before and you know

3227
02:15:45,870 --> 02:15:43,200
I've written books on Roswell

3228
02:15:48,030 --> 02:15:45,880
NASA conspiracies many black

3229
02:15:48,930 --> 02:15:48,040
conspiracies did we go to the moon area

3230
02:15:53,490 --> 02:15:48,940
51

3231
02:15:57,120 --> 02:15:53,500
hangar 18 mysterious deaths you know

3232
02:16:00,660 --> 02:15:57,130
I've written extensively on because

3233
02:16:03,240 --> 02:16:00,670
Spira seaside and whatever you know I

3234
02:16:05,250 --> 02:16:03,250
don't just write to entertain people I

3235
02:16:08,820 --> 02:16:05,260
write to get no data out and I

3236
02:16:12,210 --> 02:16:08,830
personally feel that the information

3237
02:16:14,820 --> 02:16:12,220
that he's worth saying on the UFO

3238
02:16:17,580 --> 02:16:14,830
conspiracy angle has been said whether

3239
02:16:19,440 --> 02:16:17,590
by me or whether by you know some of the

3240
02:16:21,150 --> 02:16:19,450
other earlier researches on Roswell

3241
02:16:24,480 --> 02:16:21,160
or somebody wrote about another crash

3242
02:16:25,680 --> 02:16:24,490
case or you know just another sign of

3243
02:16:27,120 --> 02:16:25,690
the conspiracy if you like you with

3244
02:16:28,770 --> 02:16:27,130
cattle mutilations you know I wouldn't

3245
02:16:30,930 --> 02:16:28,780
dream and write in a book on that

3246
02:16:34,410 --> 02:16:30,940
because you've done that it'd be

3247
02:16:37,530 --> 02:16:34,420
pointless so in other words I take a lot

3248
02:16:40,410 --> 02:16:37,540
of sort of responsibility what I write

3249
02:16:42,541 --> 02:16:40,420
and what I don't and I don't feel these

3250
02:16:44,130 --> 02:16:42,551
enough material where I would want to be

3251
02:16:47,910 --> 02:16:44,140
able to write about conspiracies again

3252
02:16:49,890 --> 02:16:47,920
and be confident that I always be able

3253
02:16:52,560 --> 02:16:49,900
to say enough to where was it where

3254
02:16:54,420 --> 02:16:52,570
wasn't gonna cheat the reader so that's

3255
02:16:56,820 --> 02:16:54,430
why you know I'm not retiring from

3256
02:16:59,010 --> 02:16:56,830
writing UFO books or paranormal books

3257
02:17:02,581 --> 02:16:59,020
I'm just not going to be doing any more

3258
02:17:05,490 --> 02:17:02,591
sort of UFO FILES and mysterious deaths

3259
02:17:06,990 --> 02:17:05,500
and underground bases you know that if

3260
02:17:09,871 --> 02:17:07,000
some other people want to do that that's

3261
02:17:11,940 --> 02:17:09,881
fine I feel you know I've put a

3262
02:17:14,490 --> 02:17:11,950
substantial amount of that kind of thing

3263
02:17:16,560 --> 02:17:14,500
out there and I can leave that legacy

3264
02:17:18,930 --> 02:17:16,570
and and just go on to other things so

3265
02:17:21,810 --> 02:17:18,940
it's not burnout it's just I don't want

3266
02:17:25,650 --> 02:17:21,820
to cheat the reader by finding there's

3267
02:17:29,130 --> 02:17:25,660
just not enough material and then you do

3268
02:17:31,170 --> 02:17:29,140
it Brandi I kind of read yeah we made a

3269
02:17:34,650 --> 02:17:31,180
bunch of yeah I'd rather leave a legacy

3270
02:17:37,110 --> 02:17:34,660
where I am now then kind of you know I'd

3271
02:17:39,990 --> 02:17:37,120
rather be sort of a band that goes out

3272
02:17:42,180 --> 02:17:40,000
you know on a final album rather than

3273
02:17:47,660 --> 02:17:42,190
play still the 75 during the role hits

3274
02:17:53,160 --> 02:17:50,371
we got to bring up a couple of

3275
02:17:55,910 --> 02:17:53,170
individuals and you know we don't have

3276
02:17:58,950 --> 02:17:55,920
much time but Jim keith is a very

3277
02:18:01,740 --> 02:17:58,960
interesting character I happen to meet

3278
02:18:04,590 --> 02:18:01,750
him very early on in the in my career in

3279
02:18:07,831 --> 02:18:04,600
the early 90s he insisted that we meet

3280
02:18:10,110 --> 02:18:07,841
in the parking lot of us Safeway and I

3281
02:18:10,919 --> 02:18:10,120
had to wait for his call for him to tell

3282
02:18:13,169 --> 02:18:10,929
me where we would

3283
02:18:16,259 --> 02:18:13,179
actually meat which I found very I've

3284
02:18:18,089 --> 02:18:16,269
never had anybody else do a you know an

3285
02:18:19,769 --> 02:18:18,099
initial meeting like that where they

3286
02:18:23,400 --> 02:18:19,779
introduce themselves in a parking lot of

3287
02:18:25,709 --> 02:18:23,410
a supermarket yeah well I was for his

3288
02:18:28,379 --> 02:18:25,719
book black helicopters over America if I

3289
02:18:30,780 --> 02:18:28,389
remember correctly and now it Jim Keith

3290
02:18:33,209 --> 02:18:30,790
correct me if I'm wrong but he was

3291
02:18:35,490 --> 02:18:33,219
coming off the stage at Burning Man

3292
02:18:39,089 --> 02:18:35,500
and broke his ankle and was dead in a

3293
02:18:41,879 --> 02:18:39,099
couple three days actually September

3294
02:18:44,599 --> 02:18:41,889
1999 and he was at the Burning Man

3295
02:18:46,530 --> 02:18:44,609
festival which is in Reno Nevada and

3296
02:18:48,450 --> 02:18:46,540
Burning Man kind of takes its

3297
02:18:50,639 --> 02:18:48,460
inspiration interestingly enough from

3298
02:18:54,389 --> 02:18:50,649
the old Wickerman festivals in the

3299
02:18:56,040 --> 02:18:54,399
Celtic period of Celtic areas thousands

3300
02:18:59,309 --> 02:18:56,050
of years ago where they'll be sort of

3301
02:19:01,740 --> 02:18:59,319
huge wooden effigy of a man loaded with

3302
02:19:04,169 --> 02:19:01,750
you know chickens and goats and pigs and

3303
02:19:06,599 --> 02:19:04,179
it would be set on fire and essentially

3304
02:19:10,290 --> 02:19:06,609
sacrificed to the earth God's to you

3305
02:19:13,080 --> 02:19:10,300
know ensure a bountiful food supply next

3306
02:19:14,759 --> 02:19:13,090
season in the next crop etc so I love

3307
02:19:19,650 --> 02:19:14,769
the movie with brick Eklund

3308
02:19:22,439 --> 02:19:19,660
dancing naked I avoid the Nicolas Cage

3309
02:19:24,530 --> 02:19:22,449
version is terrible look at the remake

3310
02:19:27,269 --> 02:19:24,540
that was awful but anyway

3311
02:19:30,360 --> 02:19:27,279
Burning Man he's interested in how did

3312
02:19:33,209 --> 02:19:30,370
its crux the the idea of a sacrificial

3313
02:19:35,059 --> 02:19:33,219
Rite so to speak well Jim Keith fell off

3314
02:19:40,290 --> 02:19:35,069
the stage actually fractured his tibia

3315
02:19:42,780 --> 02:19:40,300
his shin and and he was in a lot of pain

3316
02:19:45,000 --> 02:19:42,790
the the next day he was sort of in

3317
02:19:46,979 --> 02:19:45,010
excruciating pain and had to go to a

3318
02:19:50,360 --> 02:19:46,989
medical center in Reno

3319
02:19:53,010 --> 02:19:50,370
turns out that yep he fractured it and

3320
02:19:55,080 --> 02:19:53,020
he they told him you know you gonna have

3321
02:19:58,260 --> 02:19:55,090
to go under the knife which means you're

3322
02:20:00,360 --> 02:19:58,270
gonna be knocked out and what happened

3323
02:20:02,969 --> 02:20:00,370
was that shortly afterwards his nephew

3324
02:20:04,830 --> 02:20:02,979
came along before he had the operation

3325
02:20:06,450 --> 02:20:04,840
and Jim Keith can fire him he said that

3326
02:20:08,340 --> 02:20:06,460
you know if they put me under I just

3327
02:20:11,309 --> 02:20:08,350
know I'm not going to wake up I'm gonna

3328
02:20:13,200 --> 02:20:11,319
die and and eerily enough that's exactly

3329
02:20:15,240 --> 02:20:13,210
what happened the official story was

3330
02:20:16,559 --> 02:20:15,250
that a blood clot traveled from his knee

3331
02:20:18,389 --> 02:20:16,569
to his lungs

3332
02:20:20,760 --> 02:20:18,399
you know just stopped his heart stone

3333
02:20:23,040 --> 02:20:20,770
dead well you know that can happen and

3334
02:20:24,910 --> 02:20:23,050
but the worse of weird things

3335
02:20:26,440 --> 02:20:24,920
surrounding it for example

3336
02:20:28,750 --> 02:20:26,450
Greg Bishop good friend of mine who we

3337
02:20:32,230 --> 02:20:28,760
all know just a couple of days literally

3338
02:20:34,240 --> 02:20:32,240
a couple of days before Keith died Greg

3339
02:20:36,100 --> 02:20:34,250
and Jim Keith had an email exchange

3340
02:20:38,080 --> 02:20:36,110
where both of them were talking about

3341
02:20:40,900 --> 02:20:38,090
how in that very week

3342
02:20:44,250 --> 02:20:40,910
they both had computer hacks where major

3343
02:20:47,650 --> 02:20:44,260
files and backup files are being deleted

3344
02:20:48,969 --> 02:20:47,660
and and couldn't be restored you know

3345
02:20:50,560 --> 02:20:48,979
that they were just literally gone for

3346
02:20:53,020 --> 02:20:50,570
good and it was specific files if

3347
02:20:55,929 --> 02:20:53,030
somebody targeted both their computers

3348
02:20:57,310 --> 02:20:55,939
possibly with a virus or Greg even

3349
02:21:00,850 --> 02:20:57,320
wondered if somebody had actually been

3350
02:21:03,010 --> 02:21:00,860
into his home now what's interesting is

3351
02:21:05,980 --> 02:21:03,020
that at the very same time of his death

3352
02:21:09,370 --> 02:21:05,990
Jim keith was looking into the death of

3353
02:21:11,679 --> 02:21:09,380
Princess Diana in France in 1997 a lot

3354
02:21:13,540 --> 02:21:11,689
of people don't realize that the tunnel

3355
02:21:16,390 --> 02:21:13,550
where she was killed that area was

3356
02:21:19,630 --> 02:21:16,400
actually once a sacrificial place for

3357
02:21:22,240 --> 02:21:19,640
the for the goddess Diana which you know

3358
02:21:25,090 --> 02:21:22,250
so you've got two events linked with

3359
02:21:26,860 --> 02:21:25,100
ancient sacrifice Diana's death and Jim

3360
02:21:30,550 --> 02:21:26,870
Keith's death and Jim Keith happens to

3361
02:21:32,500 --> 02:21:30,560
be investigating Diana's death well the

3362
02:21:36,760 --> 02:21:32,510
deaths didn't end there

3363
02:21:39,250 --> 02:21:36,770
in 2001 two years after Jim Keith's

3364
02:21:42,340 --> 02:21:39,260
death Ron bonds who was his publisher

3365
02:21:45,670 --> 02:21:42,350
also died now the official story is that

3366
02:21:48,840 --> 02:21:45,680
he died of food poisoning caused by a

3367
02:21:52,630 --> 02:21:48,850
significant over amount of Clostridium

3368
02:21:56,679 --> 02:21:52,640
exposure well as Jim Cate pointed out in

3369
02:21:58,810 --> 02:21:56,689
one of his books I mean some cattle

3370
02:22:00,850 --> 02:21:58,820
mutilation events he'd investigated

3371
02:22:05,679 --> 02:22:00,860
there was no abundance of Clostridium

3372
02:22:08,830 --> 02:22:05,689
and on top of that he also wrote how

3373
02:22:11,110 --> 02:22:08,840
he'd uncovered evidence that somebody

3374
02:22:13,179 --> 02:22:11,120
saw like some blackops group was

3375
02:22:15,130 --> 02:22:13,189
developing a drug that could actually

3376
02:22:16,690 --> 02:22:15,140
provoke huge blood clots that would

3377
02:22:19,840 --> 02:22:16,700
travel to the lungs and kill people

3378
02:22:21,610 --> 02:22:19,850
which is exactly how Jim Keith died so

3379
02:22:23,950 --> 02:22:21,620
you know in other words you have Jim

3380
02:22:27,250 --> 02:22:23,960
Keith writing in his books about the

3381
02:22:30,670 --> 02:22:27,260
very issues that killed Jim and his

3382
02:22:32,950 --> 02:22:30,680
publisher Ron bonds and this has given

3383
02:22:35,170 --> 02:22:32,960
rise to an interesting theory that I

3384
02:22:37,870 --> 02:22:35,180
sort of present in the book this is what

3385
02:22:38,801 --> 02:22:37,880
I was doing research into a very much

3386
02:22:40,810 --> 02:22:38,811
like that almost like a

3387
02:22:42,461 --> 02:22:40,820
cops program program called operation

3388
02:22:45,220 --> 02:22:42,471
often which was actually created by

3389
02:22:48,970 --> 02:22:45,230
Sidney Gottlieb one of the founding

3390
02:22:52,450 --> 02:22:48,980
brain childs of MKULTRA operation often

3391
02:22:55,480 --> 02:22:52,460
was literally tasked with looking into

3392
02:22:57,790 --> 02:22:55,490
the occult as a means to weaponize it

3393
02:23:00,700 --> 02:22:57,800
and one of the things they did was to

3394
02:23:02,980 --> 02:23:00,710
try and figure out if curses literal

3395
02:23:04,650 --> 02:23:02,990
curses were a reality and if they could

3396
02:23:07,270 --> 02:23:04,660
be weaponized where somebody could

3397
02:23:10,301 --> 02:23:07,280
direct their mind at an individual and

3398
02:23:12,220 --> 02:23:10,311
put a curse on them like the worst

3399
02:23:13,690 --> 02:23:12,230
nightmare the worst Monday morning so

3400
02:23:16,211 --> 02:23:13,700
they would have like a terrible run of

3401
02:23:18,610 --> 02:23:16,221
bad luck and the idea was could we

3402
02:23:20,680 --> 02:23:18,620
assassinate someone by putting a curse

3403
02:23:23,470 --> 02:23:20,690
on them so as I point out maybe Jim

3404
02:23:26,020 --> 02:23:23,480
Keith really did fall up a stage and Ron

3405
02:23:28,570 --> 02:23:26,030
bonds was unfortunate enough to get food

3406
02:23:30,940 --> 02:23:28,580
poisoning and Diana was unfortunate to

3407
02:23:34,780 --> 02:23:30,950
die in a car crash but what if these

3408
02:23:37,421 --> 02:23:34,790
accidents were literally caused by a

3409
02:23:39,310 --> 02:23:37,431
weaponized curse as bizarre as it sounds

3410
02:23:41,921 --> 02:23:39,320
he does sound bizarre until we realized

3411
02:23:44,171 --> 02:23:41,931
that was one of the official tasks of

3412
02:23:47,740 --> 02:23:44,181
operation often was to try and figure

3413
02:23:51,850 --> 02:23:47,750
out if a curse could be created nurtured

3414
02:23:53,980 --> 02:23:51,860
and then literally dispatched oh boy

3415
02:23:58,930 --> 02:23:53,990
well I know there's some people out

3416
02:24:00,850 --> 02:23:58,940
there if they want to curse me don't we

3417
02:24:03,400 --> 02:24:00,860
hear is the four-letter kind that we can

3418
02:24:05,051 --> 02:24:03,410
have utter on this show well if they

3419
02:24:06,970 --> 02:24:05,061
tried to curse me watch out I got a

3420
02:24:08,251 --> 02:24:06,980
nuclear powered mirror it's gonna come

3421
02:24:10,540 --> 02:24:08,261
right back at you

3422
02:24:12,910 --> 02:24:10,550
well you gotta be back at you for one

3423
02:24:14,801 --> 02:24:12,920
more segment with Nick Redfern the book

3424
02:24:19,170 --> 02:24:14,811
is Close Encounters of the fatal kind

3425
02:24:19,180 --> 02:24:26,180
[Music]

3426
02:24:32,000 --> 02:24:29,130
free from the shackles of Corporate

3427
02:24:38,250 --> 02:24:32,010
America we're the place for independent

3428
02:24:39,990 --> 02:24:38,260
thinkers attack of the rock ODEs has

3429
02:24:41,761 --> 02:24:40,000
been well received by critics and

3430
02:24:44,850 --> 02:24:41,771
readers alike it's a thrill a minute

3431
02:24:47,220 --> 02:24:44,860
story you'll never forget a former US

3432
02:24:49,170 --> 02:24:47,230
military intelligence officer is haunted

3433
02:24:51,630 --> 02:24:49,180
by intense dreams about a beautiful

3434
02:24:54,780 --> 02:24:51,640
woman pleading for his help after a

3435
02:24:56,880 --> 02:24:54,790
terrible battle in outer space but the

3436
02:24:58,770 --> 02:24:56,890
dreams turn out to be true and thrust

3437
02:25:01,830 --> 02:24:58,780
him into a telepathic love affair with a

3438
02:25:04,170 --> 02:25:01,840
woman whose faraway planet is intent on

3439
02:25:07,020 --> 02:25:04,180
destroying the earth and now the

3440
02:25:09,480 --> 02:25:07,030
gripping tale continues in the coming of

3441
02:25:12,091 --> 02:25:09,490
the protectors it's the second book of

3442
02:25:14,280 --> 02:25:12,101
the rock oyster illa G a galaxy spanning

3443
02:25:17,341 --> 02:25:14,290
adventure that pits our hapless heroes

3444
02:25:19,140 --> 02:25:17,351
against powerful fanatical enemies that

3445
02:25:21,841 --> 02:25:19,150
threaten the lives of freedom loving

3446
02:25:24,591 --> 02:25:21,851
beings everywhere attack of the rock

3447
02:25:27,320 --> 02:25:24,601
ODEs and the coming of the protectors

3448
02:25:30,210 --> 02:25:27,330
classic science fiction at its best

3449
02:25:35,730 --> 02:25:30,220
available now for more details visit

3450
02:25:38,580 --> 02:25:35,740
Rocko is calm that's our Ock o IDs calm

3451
02:25:41,670 --> 02:25:38,590
a sudden change in the wind the day

3452
02:25:43,740 --> 02:25:41,680
grows dark as ominous clouds move in and

3453
02:25:46,121 --> 02:25:43,750
lightning begins to carve arcs in the

3454
02:25:49,661 --> 02:25:46,131
sky you realize

3455
02:25:51,251 --> 02:25:49,671
you are not prepared the number of

3456
02:25:53,741 --> 02:25:51,261
intense storms is increasing

3457
02:25:56,381 --> 02:25:53,751
exponentially in the u.s. tornadoes

3458
02:25:58,361 --> 02:25:56,391
hurricanes flooding and droughts are

3459
02:26:00,611 --> 02:25:58,371
happening with greater magnitude and

3460
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frequency if you are choosing to rely on

3461
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the government to save you and no one's

3462
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coming to help them you could be dead

3463
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wrong the first step towards

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a visit to my Patriot supply.com there

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3475
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3476
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3499
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3500
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3501
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3502
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3503
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3504
02:27:47,801 --> 02:27:45,921
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3505
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friends are made from these elements a

3506
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shortage of any of these important trace

3507
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elements can lead to disease go with the

3508
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3514
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3515
02:28:12,990 --> 02:28:10,630
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3516
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it's what you put on it as well why not

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3521
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3524
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3525
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3527
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3528
02:28:48,270 --> 02:28:45,550
guiley and you're listening to the

3529
02:28:49,550 --> 02:28:48,280
podcast the gold standard of paranormal

3530
02:28:57,570 --> 02:28:49,560
radio

3531
02:29:01,990 --> 02:28:59,921
okay one day we'll have that recording

3532
02:29:04,631 --> 02:29:02,000
of all the people seeing the para cast

3533
02:29:06,310 --> 02:29:04,641
and we will see we'll have votes and

3534
02:29:06,820 --> 02:29:06,320
we'll give away a t-shirt or something I

3535
02:29:09,070 --> 02:29:06,830
don't know

3536
02:29:11,620 --> 02:29:09,080
Close Encounters of the fatal kind Chris

3537
02:29:14,261 --> 02:29:11,630
any more questions left in the till well

3538
02:29:17,610 --> 02:29:14,271
actually there are you know I think I

3539
02:29:20,980 --> 02:29:17,620
think what we should do is maybe sum up

3540
02:29:23,620 --> 02:29:20,990
Nick's book and his thinking about this

3541
02:29:25,211 --> 02:29:23,630
particular you know it's an aspect of

3542
02:29:27,730 --> 02:29:25,221
ufology that you don't hear much about

3543
02:29:30,520 --> 02:29:27,740
is the you know the danger to human

3544
02:29:33,461 --> 02:29:30,530
health whether it's on the government

3545
02:29:37,211 --> 02:29:33,471
side the synchronistic side or the alien

3546
02:29:39,820 --> 02:29:37,221
side you know people are really caught

3547
02:29:41,200 --> 02:29:39,830
up in this love and light sort of space

3548
02:29:44,200 --> 02:29:41,210
brothers coming to solve all our

3549
02:29:46,150 --> 02:29:44,210
problems Nick what do you think do you

3550
02:29:49,900 --> 02:29:46,160
think that there is an inherent danger

3551
02:29:52,080 --> 02:29:49,910
in becoming involved in any way shape or

3552
02:29:54,791 --> 02:29:52,090
form whether an investigator an

3553
02:29:56,530 --> 02:29:54,801
experienced or or someone that just has

3554
02:29:58,541 --> 02:29:56,540
a casual interest in this subject do you

3555
02:30:01,150 --> 02:29:58,551
think that there's you know something to

3556
02:30:03,190 --> 02:30:01,160
be a little bit worried about or maybe

3557
02:30:06,131 --> 02:30:03,200
possibly concerned about well where do

3558
02:30:07,390 --> 02:30:06,141
you come down on this I mean well there

3559
02:30:08,980 --> 02:30:07,400
are people saying well how come you're

3560
02:30:09,370 --> 02:30:08,990
still you know you brighten all these

3561
02:30:11,261 --> 02:30:09,380
books

3562
02:30:13,360 --> 02:30:11,271
how come they haven't come after you

3563
02:30:14,770 --> 02:30:13,370
well yeah there's several things I could

3564
02:30:16,961 --> 02:30:14,780
say about this when you talk about the

3565
02:30:18,761 --> 02:30:16,971
whole love and light angle yeah I mean I

3566
02:30:20,770 --> 02:30:18,771
agree with I mean a lot of that just I

3567
02:30:23,320 --> 02:30:20,780
mean it makes me want to puke you know

3568
02:30:24,910 --> 02:30:23,330
because when you've got with so much the

3569
02:30:27,220 --> 02:30:24,920
whole you know it's all wonderful in the

3570
02:30:29,591 --> 02:30:27,230
aliens are gonna you know plug the hole

3571
02:30:31,870 --> 02:30:29,601
in the ozone layer cure cancer end all

3572
02:30:34,631 --> 02:30:31,880
wars you know and everything's gonna be

3573
02:30:36,280 --> 02:30:34,641
cool well why aren't they doing that why

3574
02:30:39,251 --> 02:30:36,290
is the world in such a state why we are

3575
02:30:41,320 --> 02:30:39,261
overpopulated you know the virus is all

3576
02:30:44,560 --> 02:30:41,330
over the place earthquakes and armies

3577
02:30:47,291 --> 02:30:44,570
you know clearly major weather issues

3578
02:30:49,301 --> 02:30:47,301
going on I don't see anybody helping us

3579
02:30:51,310 --> 02:30:49,311
and you know it's like oh well they are

3580
02:30:53,801 --> 02:30:51,320
going to help us well I'm sorry I you

3581
02:30:57,190 --> 02:30:53,811
know I don't live in that sort of little

3582
02:30:59,200 --> 02:30:57,200
nice comfortable box where the world's a

3583
02:31:00,520 --> 02:30:59,210
nice place and everybody everybody's

3584
02:31:01,810 --> 02:31:00,530
nice to everybody else you know that's

3585
02:31:04,091 --> 02:31:01,820
not the real world the real world a

3586
02:31:06,430 --> 02:31:04,101
harsh place and I think people who get

3587
02:31:08,770 --> 02:31:06,440
caught up in all that love and light you

3588
02:31:10,450 --> 02:31:08,780
know they need they need a punch on the

3589
02:31:12,370 --> 02:31:10,460
jaw or at least they will need a way

3590
02:31:16,180 --> 02:31:12,380
call just to knock a bit of sense into

3591
02:31:17,740 --> 02:31:16,190
now as far as the whole issue of you

3592
02:31:20,350 --> 02:31:17,750
know I'm writing books and nothing

3593
02:31:22,540 --> 02:31:20,360
happened to who me well I think one of

3594
02:31:25,180 --> 02:31:22,550
the things I point out in the book is

3595
02:31:28,900 --> 02:31:25,190
that clearly most people in your follow

3596
02:31:30,730 --> 02:31:28,910
G don't die or under any circumstances

3597
02:31:32,830 --> 02:31:30,740
an even remotely mysterious you know

3598
02:31:35,170 --> 02:31:32,840
they've been thousands of people over

3599
02:31:37,360 --> 02:31:35,180
the years who've written books written

3600
02:31:39,490 --> 02:31:37,370
articles given lectures subscribe to

3601
02:31:42,250 --> 02:31:39,500
magazines subscribe to journals gone

3602
02:31:45,130 --> 02:31:42,260
along to conferences young radio shows

3603
02:31:48,090 --> 02:31:45,140
hosted radio shows and they've all lived

3604
02:31:51,940 --> 02:31:48,100
out normal lengthy lives 1835 whatever

3605
02:31:55,090 --> 02:31:51,950
what I think happens and you look at

3606
02:31:57,040 --> 02:31:55,100
this as a trend it's where somebody has

3607
02:31:59,770 --> 02:31:57,050
something and they threatened to release

3608
02:32:02,650 --> 02:31:59,780
it and it's so against potentially like

3609
02:32:05,580 --> 02:32:02,660
paradigm changing but somebody takes

3610
02:32:08,260 --> 02:32:05,590
action like maybe Forrestal like JFK

3611
02:32:10,900 --> 02:32:08,270
like Frank Olson these are all people

3612
02:32:12,880 --> 02:32:10,910
who granted you know it's still we're

3613
02:32:16,210 --> 02:32:12,890
not sure but all the stories of those

3614
02:32:17,980 --> 02:32:16,220
three guys Olson Kennedy and Forrest all

3615
02:32:19,660 --> 02:32:17,990
the suggestion is they were going to go

3616
02:32:22,120 --> 02:32:19,670
public and they were people who held

3617
02:32:24,640 --> 02:32:22,130
positions of great responsibility in

3618
02:32:26,469 --> 02:32:24,650
these agencies or you know presidential

3619
02:32:27,969 --> 02:32:26,479
offices who really would be listened to

3620
02:32:29,950 --> 02:32:27,979
and the house of cards would come

3621
02:32:33,040 --> 02:32:29,960
tumbling down then and also possibly

3622
02:32:35,830 --> 02:32:33,050
people like Morris Jessup who you know

3623
02:32:37,630 --> 02:32:35,840
if for example could have been on the

3624
02:32:38,980 --> 02:32:37,640
verge of releasing something because of

3625
02:32:40,060 --> 02:32:38,990
this conversation you wanted to have in

3626
02:32:41,790 --> 02:32:40,070
Manson ballantine

3627
02:32:45,370 --> 02:32:41,800
so in other words it's not your average

3628
02:32:46,240 --> 02:32:45,380
UFO researcher who happens to write a

3629
02:32:48,190 --> 02:32:46,250
book on Roswell

3630
02:32:50,080 --> 02:32:48,200
it's when there's a fear somebody has

3631
02:32:52,840 --> 02:32:50,090
something that can really tip the scales

3632
02:32:53,980 --> 02:32:52,850
now contrary to a lot of people think

3633
02:32:55,690 --> 02:32:53,990
and I know they think this because

3634
02:32:58,300 --> 02:32:55,700
they've said it to me you know I don't

3635
02:33:00,010 --> 02:32:58,310
live some fox mulder life where the

3636
02:33:02,110 --> 02:33:00,020
phone rings and somebody says you know

3637
02:33:03,790 --> 02:33:02,120
maybe at the nearest parking lot at

3638
02:33:05,590 --> 02:33:03,800
midnight I've got a stash of documents

3639
02:33:08,380 --> 02:33:05,600
for you that doesn't happen that's never

3640
02:33:11,020 --> 02:33:08,390
happened you know I wrote I interview

3641
02:33:12,670 --> 02:33:11,030
people I used afraid of information act

3642
02:33:15,000 --> 02:33:12,680
I turned like a journalistic approach

3643
02:33:17,830 --> 02:33:15,010
but you know I don't run around

3644
02:33:19,900 --> 02:33:17,840
underground bases you know or meeting

3645
02:33:22,450 --> 02:33:19,910
four or five mister X type characters

3646
02:33:24,190 --> 02:33:22,460
everywhere it just doesn't happen and so

3647
02:33:26,230 --> 02:33:24,200
although I've written extensively

3648
02:33:28,600 --> 02:33:26,240
about cover-ups and conspiracies in

3649
02:33:31,270 --> 02:33:28,610
relation to UFOs you know I don't have

3650
02:33:34,091 --> 02:33:31,280
any smoking gun that could tip the

3651
02:33:36,341 --> 02:33:34,101
scales and I think it's the people who

3652
02:33:38,051 --> 02:33:36,351
do or who's suspected of having

3653
02:33:40,330 --> 02:33:38,061
something that could tip the scales

3654
02:33:43,210 --> 02:33:40,340
they're the ones that need to worry you

3655
02:33:44,860 --> 02:33:43,220
know for example that's why you people

3656
02:33:47,890 --> 02:33:44,870
have written about the NSA linked to

3657
02:33:50,410 --> 02:33:47,900
UFOs nothing happened to them but look

3658
02:33:51,610 --> 02:33:50,420
at Edward Snowden that was because if

3659
02:33:52,990 --> 02:33:51,620
that's a totally different situation

3660
02:33:55,511 --> 02:33:53,000
where you have somebody who steals

3661
02:33:58,330 --> 02:33:55,521
documents from the NSA versus somebody

3662
02:34:00,640 --> 02:33:58,340
who writes about public knowledge on

3663
02:34:02,860 --> 02:34:00,650
UFOs and the NSA two totally different

3664
02:34:04,600 --> 02:34:02,870
things and I think you can make that

3665
02:34:05,980 --> 02:34:04,610
analogy with ufology is a massive

3666
02:34:08,261 --> 02:34:05,990
difference between writing about the

3667
02:34:11,470 --> 02:34:08,271
subject and being someone who's got

3668
02:34:14,650 --> 02:34:11,480
something that can prove the subject all

3669
02:34:17,440 --> 02:34:14,660
right very good point and I want to kind

3670
02:34:20,080 --> 02:34:17,450
of emphasize that point by saying it's

3671
02:34:23,080 --> 02:34:20,090
not the ETS that we should be worried

3672
02:34:26,470 --> 02:34:23,090
about so much it's the human elements

3673
02:34:28,780 --> 02:34:26,480
that are nervous about a very closed

3674
02:34:31,150 --> 02:34:28,790
system terrestrial secrets that might

3675
02:34:33,430 --> 02:34:31,160
yeah one thing one thing I would stress

3676
02:34:34,900 --> 02:34:33,440
as well is that you know people are

3677
02:34:36,011 --> 02:34:34,910
asking you why is the government doing

3678
02:34:37,480 --> 02:34:36,021
this well they're killing people I

3679
02:34:39,400 --> 02:34:37,490
actually don't think it is the governor

3680
02:34:42,011 --> 02:34:39,410
I don't think it's the CIA or the NSA or

3681
02:34:44,140 --> 02:34:42,021
the FBI I really do think that as I

3682
02:34:46,390 --> 02:34:44,150
believe with the UFO phenomenon itself

3683
02:34:49,060 --> 02:34:46,400
and the secrecy surrounding it I think

3684
02:34:51,250 --> 02:34:49,070
we're dealing we'd like a shadow agency

3685
02:34:54,250 --> 02:34:51,260
that operates outside of government one

3686
02:34:55,841 --> 02:34:54,260
probably has links and tentacles all

3687
02:34:57,761 --> 02:34:55,851
around the world kind of actually like

3688
02:34:59,440 --> 02:34:57,771
what Jim Keith was looking into at the

3689
02:35:01,650 --> 02:34:59,450
time of his death the so called octopus

3690
02:35:04,870 --> 02:35:01,660
as it became known this sort of shadowy

3691
02:35:07,240 --> 02:35:04,880
almost like a almost like an occult type

3692
02:35:09,400 --> 02:35:07,250
group but with official links like a

3693
02:35:12,040 --> 02:35:09,410
like a modern-day Illuminati or

3694
02:35:13,570 --> 02:35:12,050
something and I actually think this is

3695
02:35:15,370 --> 02:35:13,580
the people we should be looking for if

3696
02:35:17,560 --> 02:35:15,380
we could find them you know a lot of

3697
02:35:19,150 --> 02:35:17,570
people think it's a Pentagon or the CIA

3698
02:35:20,710 --> 02:35:19,160
I actually don't think they're the bad

3699
02:35:22,750 --> 02:35:20,720
guys in this at all I think it's

3700
02:35:24,520 --> 02:35:22,760
something outside specifically of

3701
02:35:26,740 --> 02:35:24,530
governments that even people in the

3702
02:35:28,990 --> 02:35:26,750
Pentagon have no knowledge of and I

3703
02:35:31,301 --> 02:35:29,000
think they're the ones who responsible

3704
02:35:34,421 --> 02:35:31,311
for wiping out these people they sort of

3705
02:35:36,040 --> 02:35:34,431
you know like a they're the real power

3706
02:35:38,020 --> 02:35:36,050
players in the world you know they're

3707
02:35:39,580 --> 02:35:38,030
the real string colors not just the

3708
02:35:41,260 --> 02:35:39,590
President or the Prime Minister or

3709
02:35:45,310 --> 02:35:41,270
whatever all you have to do is look at

3710
02:35:47,350 --> 02:35:45,320
Danny casolaro and Gary Webb and you can

3711
02:35:50,050 --> 02:35:47,360
come up with a number of individuals

3712
02:35:53,110 --> 02:35:50,060
that have been digging into very close

3713
02:35:55,960 --> 02:35:53,120
system you know manipulation behind the

3714
02:35:58,810 --> 02:35:55,970
scenes by very powerful entities those

3715
02:36:01,690 --> 02:35:58,820
are the people that tend to be at least

3716
02:36:05,320 --> 02:36:01,700
in my estimation generally they're the

3717
02:36:08,260 --> 02:36:05,330
ones that are targeted and died to

3718
02:36:09,580 --> 02:36:08,270
regret it would you blame Nick this may

3719
02:36:12,370 --> 02:36:09,590
be the last question would you blame

3720
02:36:14,980 --> 02:36:12,380
maybe some of those private billionaires

3721
02:36:20,350 --> 02:36:14,990
who owned huge conglomerates like the

3722
02:36:22,870 --> 02:36:20,360
Koch brothers not really no I think I

3723
02:36:25,210 --> 02:36:22,880
think it's more I think the shadow

3724
02:36:27,070 --> 02:36:25,220
agency are the ones you know there are

3725
02:36:29,020 --> 02:36:27,080
bodies and wreckage I think it was

3726
02:36:31,600 --> 02:36:29,030
siphoned off from the military decades

3727
02:36:34,540 --> 02:36:31,610
ago into likely some private corporation

3728
02:36:37,300 --> 02:36:34,550
shadow groups and I think I think it's

3729
02:36:40,840 --> 02:36:37,310
specifically geared to hiding the truth

3730
02:36:43,330 --> 02:36:40,850
and investigating the UFO phenomenon it

3731
02:36:46,060 --> 02:36:43,340
may not actually be tied to other issues

3732
02:36:48,520 --> 02:36:46,070
and corporations at all so I think I

3733
02:36:50,710 --> 02:36:48,530
think it's a I think it's a shadow UFO

3734
02:36:53,560 --> 02:36:50,720
group specifically dealing with that

3735
02:36:55,330 --> 02:36:53,570
angle and when somebody needs taken out

3736
02:36:57,490 --> 02:36:55,340
they've got the connections you know

3737
02:36:59,260 --> 02:36:57,500
with some somebody who can get the job

3738
02:37:02,140 --> 02:36:59,270
done and it's all off the record off the

3739
02:37:03,730 --> 02:37:02,150
books payment under the table nothing to

3740
02:37:06,730 --> 02:37:03,740
do with governments at all it's just

3741
02:37:09,160 --> 02:37:06,740
totally you know this this totally

3742
02:37:11,230 --> 02:37:09,170
separate entity that's you know nobody

3743
02:37:13,750 --> 02:37:11,240
knows exists but actually has threads

3744
02:37:21,340 --> 02:37:13,760
all across the planet it gives us the

3745
02:37:22,870 --> 02:37:21,350
government possible deniability it's

3746
02:37:25,900 --> 02:37:22,880
like there's to do there's everybody

3747
02:37:26,890 --> 02:37:25,910
else yeah yeah that makes it sound like

3748
02:37:29,070 --> 02:37:26,900
they're actually involved I don't

3749
02:37:31,480 --> 02:37:29,080
believe they are involved I think

3750
02:37:35,590 --> 02:37:31,490
plausible deniability kind of implies

3751
02:37:37,810 --> 02:37:35,600
their implicit I don't think you think

3752
02:37:39,490 --> 02:37:37,820
it's something independent someone is

3753
02:37:41,590 --> 02:37:39,500
under control maybe it's Illuminati

3754
02:37:43,570 --> 02:37:41,600
maybe who knows don't think something

3755
02:37:45,520 --> 02:37:43,580
like that yeah sure but not the

3756
02:37:47,410 --> 02:37:45,530
government Nick Redfern where can we

3757
02:37:50,290 --> 02:37:47,420
find more information about the things

3758
02:37:51,639 --> 02:37:50,300
you're right about people can reach with

3759
02:37:55,420 --> 02:37:51,649
my blog which is Nick

3760
02:37:58,989 --> 02:37:55,430
14 as in 14 times fo RT a and Nick

3761
02:38:00,909 --> 02:37:58,999
Redfern 40 and blogspot.com people can

3762
02:38:02,979 --> 02:38:00,919
buy the books on Amazon or off the

3763
02:38:04,689 --> 02:38:02,989
shelves in Barnes & Noble or people can

3764
02:38:07,300 --> 02:38:04,699
just fly me in Facebook type in Nick

3765
02:38:08,979 --> 02:38:07,310
Redfern and scroll through all the

3766
02:38:12,309 --> 02:38:08,989
various Nick Redferns and the and

3767
02:38:14,469 --> 02:38:12,319
they'll find me he's there lurking you

3768
02:38:17,830 --> 02:38:14,479
can find Chris O'Brien at our strange

3769
02:38:20,109 --> 02:38:17,840
planet calm our strange planet calm if

3770
02:38:22,479 --> 02:38:20,119
you buy his new book stalking the heard

3771
02:38:25,269 --> 02:38:22,489
directly from his site Chris gets all

3772
02:38:27,279 --> 02:38:25,279
the money and he signs any numbers them

3773
02:38:29,139 --> 02:38:27,289
you can find us on Twitter we're known

3774
02:38:31,420 --> 02:38:29,149
as the para cast we are the para casts

3775
02:38:34,899 --> 02:38:31,430
on Twitter you will find a grand total

3776
02:38:37,179 --> 02:38:34,909
of 2 para cast fan clubs on Facebook I

3777
02:38:38,559 --> 02:38:37,189
think if I try to close one I'll be

3778
02:38:40,210 --> 02:38:38,569
attacked by the people at Facebook

3779
02:38:42,729 --> 02:38:40,220
because you can't close a Facebook

3780
02:38:51,410 --> 02:38:42,739
account they tell me anyway Nick Redfern

3781
02:38:57,430 --> 02:38:53,910
[Music]

3782
02:39:00,340 --> 02:38:57,440
the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

3783
02:39:03,330 --> 02:39:00,350
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

3784
02:39:07,060 --> 02:39:03,340
presentation of making the impossible